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(Yeah, yeah: Gaming forum, blah blah blah. I find the issue interesting, and I'm curious about the opinions of certain forumites around here. Skip this thread if it's not your kind of thing.)

Question for discussion: Are citizens responsible for the debt incurred by their government?

It might seem a simple question, but consider:

Ricky votes for politicians whom he believes are sincere in their promise to balance the budget. He donates to their campaigns, and he encourages other citizens to realize the danger of the growing debt. He writes to his representatives about the issue. Rickey pays his taxes, and he receives no payments of any kind from the government.

However, the politicians for whom he voted do not uphold their promise, or the majority of his fellow citizens vote for politicians who are heedless of the danger. This happens over and over again, and the country spirals into ever-increasing debt.

Is Ricky morally responsible for a portion of the debt? In the event of an economic crisis caused by that debt, is it just for the state to confiscate his savings? Is the answer just "Tough luck, Ricky, that's democracy for ya"?

And what about those citizens not yet born, whose futures are being mortgaged by the current generation? Can they be rightly held responsible?

For me, the only acceptable answer to these questions is that if we are to hold citizens ultimately responsible for the debt, then the state must not be allowed to borrow money except during times of war (and further that war must never be waged for any reason other than the defense of the citizens of that state).

But I seem to be in the minority in that opinion given the state of the world, so...

Thoughts?
No, politicians are.. I don't even when in here we as citizens were asked anything.
Edit: + remember =)

edit2: That's why I support brexit, however it goes in the long run but at least they had the balls to ask.
Post edited July 02, 2016 by Antimateria
No, but they ARE responsible for the removal of corrupt politicians, the incarceration of corrupt politicians, government officials, bankers, corporate lobbyists and other such wonderful things. And quite possibly for a long, hard look at the failing system and a similarly long talk about how we go about changing it.
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sunshinecorp: No, but they ARE responsible for the removal of corrupt politicians, the incarceration of corrupt politicians, government officials, bankers, corporate lobbyists and other such wonderful things. And quite possibly for a long, hard look at the failing system and a similarly long talk about how we go about changing it.
https://fuzzylizzard.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/scotty-meme-generator-she-cannae-take-any-more-captain-she-s-gonna-blow-1bc725.gif?w=383&h=288

Infact finland is sheep people we haven't been in barricades in like decades.. we just swallow salty cum.. It's not fun.
Still, good country is this. Like yoda would say.. "finnish you speak? I die rather"
Damn you yoda. NOOOOOO *hand falls off*

Ehh.. nevermind.
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drmfro: snip
Not sure to be happy or upset that I caught this thread so early...

I won't outline much on why or how, I'll just give you some thoughts.

1 - if the system is democratic then some form of civic responsibility is implicit
2 - if anyone is de facto disenfrachised that is tragic, but not immoral
3 - responsibility is (should be?) associated with power, hence assigning moral weight to it is somewhat fraught
4 - state confiscation of private property is a separate topic - sure the indirect consequences of debt / inflation are also equivalent to loss of purchasing power for savers, but the mechanisms for how the "loss" is incurred matter
5 - citizens (also unborn) have (or will have) the power to default, to continue kicking the can, to save or consume more or less - ergo, see 1 and 2 again

Ultimately one has the power, and therefore the responsibility to choose to belong or not to communities, states, nations. Trying to change / convince others that things should be different is noble, especially in comparison to coercing them, but one should accept the inherent risk that one will not get their way. In which case, the choice is to jump out, or live with it.
Ricky?! I knew it! It was Ricky all along!
A national debt always seemed a ludicrous situation, specially at the current figures.

Its fiscal mechanisms are abstract, unbound to anything the common man could compare too, and not something I could claim to understand.
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drmfro: For me, the only acceptable answer to these questions is that if we are to hold citizens ultimately responsible for the debt, then the state must not be allowed to borrow money except during times of war (and further that war must never be waged for any reason other than the defense of the citizens of that state).
So if there is a famine you say "Fuck the starving. We should only borrow money to blow people up, not feed them." :P
It's our debt, so we are. Even if we don't want it. Even if we're at the polls. It is our debt and we are and will be enslaved by it.
Maybe
Depends and even then to a point only. If someone lies or tells a half truth, it would be hard to defend against that. The only time that the citizens can be held responsible is if a politician with a track record of lying and messing things up is voted back in office. At that point that particular society was asking for it.
Did this OP just set it and forget it?
My opinion on this is potato.
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drmfro: *snip*
If the debts are made in an attempt to fulfil the tasks of a democratic government then the answer is "Yes".
If the debts are made because the government throws big parties with lots of hookers then the answer is "No".
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drmfro: (Yeah, yeah: Gaming forum, blah blah blah. I find the issue interesting, and I'm curious about the opinions of certain forumites around here. Skip this thread if it's not your kind of thing.)

Question for discussion: Are citizens responsible for the debt incurred by their government?

It might seem a simple question, but consider:

Ricky votes for politicians whom he believes are sincere in their promise to balance the budget. He donates to their campaigns, and he encourages other citizens to realize the danger of the growing debt. He writes to his representatives about the issue. Rickey pays his taxes, and he receives no payments of any kind from the government.

However, the politicians for whom he voted do not uphold their promise, or the majority of his fellow citizens vote for politicians who are heedless of the danger. This happens over and over again, and the country spirals into ever-increasing debt.

Is Ricky morally responsible for a portion of the debt? In the event of an economic crisis caused by that debt, is it just for the state to confiscate his savings? Is the answer just "Tough luck, Ricky, that's democracy for ya"?

And what about those citizens not yet born, whose futures are being mortgaged by the current generation? Can they be rightly held responsible?

For me, the only acceptable answer to these questions is that if we are to hold citizens ultimately responsible for the debt, then the state must not be allowed to borrow money except during times of war (and further that war must never be waged for any reason other than the defense of the citizens of that state).

But I seem to be in the minority in that opinion given the state of the world, so...

Thoughts?
Yes of course. They hold 1/ country total voting population of the responsibility.

However the individual is 100% responsible for themselves. Blaming the government or the other people will not change that.

If they cannot change the situation, and debts are going to screw them, they have a responsibility to escape the situation by taking action or do noting / cry and being screwed.

Like having a valuable skills that migrating to other country is easy

Or change their saving of the country soon to be failing currency into asset / other stable currency / valuable goods.

When all other option is not available, try learning survival skills so they can live in the wilderness without depending on the country currency, so even if it crash, it won't hurt much.