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It's free till this friday.
I'm playing it, but it's got the same problems as most algorithmic spam games.
Get into new area, encounter randomly generated area of type 1-<100, game scans for level/tickets spam scripted hazard, overcome hazard go to objective, complete objective, pick 1 of so many limitted rewards in what 'isn't an exhaustive list of possibilities the devs use to maintain balance, pick new objective 1->20, embark on objective, rinse and repeat.
It's basically starting to feel like no mans sky lol.

Ah if only x4 was serviceably good.
If you enjoy grinding, it's the game for you. I had it for like 5 years now, never could get into it, even though I enjoyed the hell out of the original 30 years ago - best game on ZX Spectrum back in the day lol
Post edited November 23, 2020 by anzial
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MaceyNeil: It's free till this friday.
I'm playing it, but it's got the same problems as most algorithmic spam games.
Get into new area, encounter randomly generated area of type 1-<100, game scans for level/tickets spam scripted hazard, overcome hazard go to objective, complete objective, pick 1 of so many limitted rewards in what 'isn't an exhaustive list of possibilities the devs use to maintain balance, pick new objective 1->20, embark on objective, rinse and repeat.
It's basically starting to feel like no mans sky lol.

Ah if only x4 was serviceably good.
As a Kickstarter backer I already have it but haven't played it in years mainly due to reasons like you said yourself the aforementioned grinding and boring gameplay.
I had my monies worth of fun with it though and I am somewhat curious to see if anything has improved since but at the time improvements didn't add anything of worth (powerplay, aliens, landing on lifeless planets) without addressing the aforementioned issues.
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MaceyNeil: It's free till this friday.
I'm playing it, but it's got the same problems as most algorithmic spam games.
Get into new area, encounter randomly generated area of type 1-<100, game scans for level/tickets spam scripted hazard, overcome hazard go to objective, complete objective, pick 1 of so many limitted rewards in what 'isn't an exhaustive list of possibilities the devs use to maintain balance, pick new objective 1->20, embark on objective, rinse and repeat.
It's basically starting to feel like no mans sky lol.

Ah if only x4 was serviceably good.
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Strijkbout: As a Kickstarter backer I already have it but haven't played it in years mainly due to reasons like you said yourself the aforementioned grinding and boring gameplay.
I had my monies worth of fun with it though and I am somewhat curious to see if anything has improved since but at the time improvements didn't add anything of worth (powerplay, aliens, landing on lifeless planets) without addressing the aforementioned issues.
makes me wonder if it's an insurmountable problem to randomly generated content.
low rated
Oh my god, I found a penny (I didn't really) that just sounded funny!

Like this Funny shit!
Post edited November 23, 2020 by fr33kSh0w2012
Second time I was tempted for two seconds to get an Epicgamestork account, it passed after having had a quick look at the game. Mind you, I accept a bit of grinding alright.

Hoping for Egosoft to fix the autopilot and path-finding issues in X4 Foundations. Also REALLY hoping the new multi-player stuff does not destroy the game.

Still, a way to get a modern serious space sim for free, except you need a powerful enough pc for it. There is still http://www.oolite.org/ , the free Elite clone.
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Themken: Still, a way to get a modern serious space sim for free, except you need a powerful enough pc for it. There is still http://www.oolite.org/ , the free Elite clone.
You can mod that quite nicely as well :)

---------------

My goto 'elite' game is FFED3D+AndyJ mod. It is basically the reverse-engineered version of Elite Frontier: First Encounters game from the 90's but with better graphics and lots of bug fixes.

I run an old version and made a bunch of mods to sit on top of the AndyJ mod to suit my needs. Info here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-ffed3daj-thread.12734/

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-general-bugfixing-playtesting-thread-for-ffed3d-mods.7168/

As for Elite:Dangerous, i'm also an original backer (when the Kickstarter first took off) and have the digital all future expansions included version (or whatever that was called at the time), BUT i've never played it in part as for many years there were just so many annoying GUI issues i was finding in the training missions that it put me off trying the full game until they were fixed (it took ages and probably some stuff is still not quite right) and also i wanted the single player game that never was, even if it was mentioned during the Kickstarter. The main reason being i could then mod the game to fix the errors the devs had missed/looked over and moved on etc.

So yeah the above modded version of a modded 1990's version of the FFE game is my current best space 'elite' game, a keeper :)

As for Elite: Dangerous i'll be waiting for a single player off line version when they shut the servers down, and if that does not happen i consider my Kickstarter a donation for all the Elite fun i've had down the years and the fact i'm still playing and enjoying the better older versions of the game.
Post edited November 23, 2020 by ThorChild
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ThorChild: As for Elite: Dangerous i'll be waiting for a single player off line version when they shut the servers down, and if that does not happen i consider my Kickstarter a donation for all the Elite fun i've had down the years and the fact i'm still playing and enjoying the better older versions of the game.
I'm still pissed at that 11th hour decision to 180 from a DRM-free game to an always online product; I'm glad I got my refund. And then their next 'coaster game similarly was/is a DRM-infested cesspool. It's like the people working there like to hate on customers.
Post edited November 23, 2020 by mqstout
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Themken: ... Still, a way to get a modern serious space sim for free, except you need a powerful enough pc for it. There is still http://www.oolite.org/ , the free Elite clone.
Pioneer is worth a look as well - it uses Newtonian physics making navigation more complex. Nowhere near as many addons though.
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AstralWanderer: Pioneer
More space :-)


The always online requirement for Elite Dangerous is beyond my understanding. It is like EA games.
Post edited November 23, 2020 by Themken
well I had my no dollars fun with the game now.

looked up where i can find a shipyard that shows me all the ships in the game plottted a course and went eh i never get more than a quarter down on fuel i should easily make that andd if not i'll just refuel as I go.
Jump failure not enough fuel.. damn okay so i'll check this ... oh binary star system with no planets showing... that's okay i'll try to hop a shorter target... fsd can't comply not enough fuel... urg, I hope there's something undiscovered at the other star.. nope.. crap oh crap I have no 'plan b' got to check guides... turning off fuel guzzler mode... turning off everything including sensors... no wait need them for navigation... life support off ah.. can i reach anouther star yet.. yes thank god.. hey it's populated geez i need to find the closest thing to crash land on... that one on the planet that's the closest... i'll fly down... only thing on this planet too what a save, where's the request landing button?!?.. "You are entering a restricted area".. I need fuel it's an emergency i'm gonna die.. "Bounty 1000cr you have entered a restricted area".. I don't care so long as I can land and refuel.. what's that AA you can't stop me from landing here this is happening; damn stil no dock button.. what the hells that? Drones.. damnit, screw you fine i'm leaving hope i make it to that space station the next sun over.. flying.. stares intently on fuel gage... phew i made it.. restricted port services what the hell are they not letting me get fuel what's this anonymous mode, oh phew the button is just lagged out because of the crappy server tethered system.

So I guess i'm a pirate now.. because of fuel. :P
All live in fear of low mile the pirate scourge of the galaxy, be on guard at any time he may try to strike; swooping down from on high to declare he will pay anything just to land & refuel ye heartless bastards.
Countless non-dead are left in his wake, truly a threat to us all.

Funny thing is I have a T1 fuel scoop I could just replace the docking computer with it at like any time lol. Nah i'll make it :P




Yeah i really don't see the neeeed for the online always system' especially how it seems to lag everything to hell. It's like literally everything you do has to be signed off by the server including using the main menu to change local settings.
I honestly can see no benefit to it in a game like this aside from the use of storing a database of what's explored where and what the result was; and then the only reason to care is for the multiplayer for all those humans you never seem to bump into unless your deliberately guilding.
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Themken: The always online requirement for Elite Dangerous is beyond my understanding. It is like EA games.
David Braben has a particular bee in his bonnet over piracy - after the release of Frontier: Elite 2 he gave interviews in which he stated (amongst other things):

"Piracy means that I may not be supporting the Amiga in the future. I've always liked the Amiga as a machine. The hacking isn't a problem, it's the people who sell the games on the streets who're doing the real damage."
Amiga Format issue 54, Xmas 1993

"I'm in half a mind myself not to produce any more stuff for Amiga and ST, because we've been clobbered so much by piracy there's little point in spending five years of your life doing something for these people to rip you off at the end of it."
ST Format issue 54, June 1994

However the real scandal was that the Kickstarter project for Elite: Dangerous promised backers a DRM-free release. Now it was worded carefully enough to not exclude future DRM (which was why I avoided it) but a number of KS backers were let down by Braben's turnabout. He's not the only developer to backtrack on such a KS promise, but certainly has been the highest pofile.
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Themken: The always online requirement for Elite Dangerous is beyond my understanding. It is like EA games.
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AstralWanderer: David Braben has a particular bee in his bonnet over piracy - after the release of Frontier: Elite 2 he gave interviews in which he stated (amongst other things):

"Piracy means that I may not be supporting the Amiga in the future. I've always liked the Amiga as a machine. The hacking isn't a problem, it's the people who sell the games on the streets who're doing the real damage."
Amiga Format issue 54, Xmas 1993

"I'm in half a mind myself not to produce any more stuff for Amiga and ST, because we've been clobbered so much by piracy there's little point in spending five years of your life doing something for these people to rip you off at the end of it."
ST Format issue 54, June 1994
This is where developers make themselves look stupid. If their games *WEREN'T* getting pirated, there would be something wrong with their game. As if this game isn't even worth getting for free. The ones that are *buying* pirated games are a lot rarer than he thinks, literally just a blip on the radar.
And while Populous was pirated to death, I never heard Bullfrog complain about it. Their sales of that game was still huge.

When developers use piracy as an excuse for poor sales, they've totally lost all understanding of the their own market they're selling to. The fact is, is if most pirates can't get it for free, then they won't buy it anyway. Therefore few lost sales in real terms. And as bad as Microsoft are, they never once made a big issue out of Windows piracy. As long as you can put up with the watermark in the bottom right hand corner reminding you to activate it, it will still download security updates till the cows come home.

Despite how easy it was to modify the original Xbox console to play ripped games, I never once heard a developer complain about it.

It's up to them if they want to throw away a good form of income that is making them a profit regardless. Or perhaps they don't live in the real world, where a lot of people will rip others off when they can. Case in point, scammers. Now they are the real scumbags.

Or perhaps 20 years on Braben has finally woken up to reality now.

BTW, the Atari ST piracy scene was just as big as the Amiga piracy scene. It just goes to show how ignorant Braben was back then. I can understand why Atari went broke, I still fail to see why Commodore went broke too. Especially after the runaway success of the C64, which arguably was partly because of how pirate discs were so easy to acquire for it. The ST and Amiga didn't quite have that same "attraction" to the scale the C64 had.
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Themken: ... Still, a way to get a modern serious space sim for free, except you need a powerful enough pc for it. There is still http://www.oolite.org/ , the free Elite clone.
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AstralWanderer: Pioneer is worth a look as well - it uses Newtonian physics making navigation more complex. Nowhere near as many addons though.
I forgot to add in my other reply, oolite.org doesn't appear to exist anymore. Try this one..
https://oolite.space/
Post edited January 03, 2024 by rhaines8
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rhaines8: When developers use piracy as an excuse for poor sales, they've totally lost all understanding of the their own market they're selling to. The fact is, is if most pirates can't get it for free, then they won't buy it anyway.
I wonder why they still blame piracy for potential losses while developers and publishers don't address the impact of streaming platforms, Let's Play series, guides without commentary, and other formats shared on major video-sharing and streaming websites on sales numbers and loss of revenue. This content is watched by hundreds of thousands of viewers daily. Content creators and streamers are the ones earning money from it, while developers and publishers can only hope that, based on the viewers' impressions, at least some of them will buy a license.

In principle, it is the same as with piracy. Those who want to see the whole game without paying can do so legally and without paying any money to developers. Unlike piracy, developers and publishers are completely fine with this, instead of trying to protect their content from being watched freely, as they do against piracy. They could add code to scramble output to prevent games from being recorded and streamed, restrict access to Let's Plays and streams to viewers with a legitimate copy, and ask for a fee to watch content. Watching videos and streams is also just like downloading a copy, as in both cases, viewers/consumers gain a good impression, and based on it, a sale is made or lost.

None of them do, of course. On the contrary, they are going out of their way to make it possible to record and stream their content. They are putting in extra work to add censorship options, for instance, names for characters, looks of characters, and other input of any kind, disabling or replacing music or content deemed not 'stream-safe' or 'age-appropriate.' Some go even further than that, for instance, limiting what can be done because someone could be offended by what a streamer does, and developers worry that it will reflect back on them. They are adding streamer interaction (even for single-player games...), and lots of other options, to make it interactive and inclusive for the masses, that players don't need, like, or even care for, just to make them look good.

The rest of the world still has to live with DRM protection, store clients, and 3rd-party launchers, for which they have to pay only not to be accused of being pirates, and without any benefits at all. Content can be changed, games removed from libraries, people can get banned from a store they have been paying money to, losing access to legitimately bought licenses.

If instead, they realized that they could as well sell their games without 3rd-party protection software and without limiting and censoring games for fear of gaining a negative reputation for what someone else does (on stream or in recordings), piracy would still exist, but legitimate customers would at least feel like such instead of feeling like publishers and developers are trying to protect themselves from those paying money for a worthless license. And if nothing else, if they don't make money because of piracy or videos and streams being watched, at least they don't waste any on the attempt to 'protect' their work.

Human nature tends to resist drastic change, and those who are willing to deviate often face consequences because others cling to old ways, views, and opinions. Unless a significant shift occurs and an ultimate developer/publisher protection platform becomes a reality, it will take a considerable amount of time to overcome the notion of 'loss of potential revenue due to piracy.' Even if piracy or streaming platforms didn't exist, there's no guarantee that someone would make a purchase simply because they don't like a screenshot they've seen. Attempting to address a genuine problem but inadvertently causing issues for potential customers, those who are willing to pay instead of resorting to downloading, doesn't seem to be a worthwhile approach. Being more lenient and trusting that games will be purchased without unnecessary restrictions might prove to be a more customer-friendly and effective strategy in the long run.
Post edited January 03, 2024 by Mori_Yuki
Congratulations on the 3-year thread necromancy...

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rhaines8: This is where developers make themselves look stupid...
In David Braben's case, it seems to be more like a major case of control freakery. He blocked the release of a PalmOS version of Elite, even threatening his co-writer Ian Bell with legal action if he offered just 3 copies in a prize draw.

With that sort of track record, his backtracking on the Kickstarter does seem more, ahem, consistent which makes me feel even happier not to have supported him.