OneFiercePuppy: Why does no-one mention TIE Fighter? While you mostly can't upgrade the ships, you get quite a wide variety, so you still get to upgrade what you're flying, if not directly. And TIE Fighter is one hell of a game. Granted, ok, it doesn't really speak directly to the second sentence the OP posted, but, still. It's an amazing game, and a decent flight sim.

OP: Look into NEXUS: The Jupiter Incident. It's aged quite well, and while you'll usually not be controlling just one ship, it's a good space sim, with ship upgrades as well as pilot upgrades (though the pilot upgrade part is really lightweight), and an interesting setting.

pimpmonkey2382.313: Look at my first post.

OneFiercePuppy: Jesus, I seriously only saw the first half of that line.

Sorry :/

Sachys: couldnt find the specific one yet, but it IS listed here somewhere: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=100641

pimpmonkey2382.313: Uh.....

Ixamyakxim: Yes thank you there's an old quote about "playing in traffic" - I'll certainly be doing that over there!

Ixamyakxim: LOL wait so $#@&ing my sister won't get me a better start in this game??? Damnit why didn't you tell me that a few hours, a game restart and several beers ago!

(I'm sorry I had to post this, please forgive me fellow forumgoers).

Ixamyakxim: Yes thank you there's an old quote about "playing in traffic" - I'll certainly be doing that over there!

Ixamyakxim: LOL wait so $#@&ing my sister won't get me a better start in this game??? Damnit why didn't you tell me that a few hours, a game restart and several beers ago!

(I'm sorry I had to post this, please forgive me fellow forumgoers).