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General discussionAnnouncement: Big Preorders & Launch Day Releases Coming!(4041 posts)(4041 posts)
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Posted February 21, 2014
The DRM-Free Revolution Continues with Big Pre-Orders and Launch Day Releases!

Good news! GOG.com is going to bring you more fantastic launch day releases, preorders, and other exciting new content from some of our favorite developers. We've lined up 3 big titles that we will be bringing to GOG.com in the next couple of months for sale or preorder that we think will be hits with all of our gamers; and we have more equally exciting games coming up soon.

If you've been a member of the site for a long time, you may recall that when we launched sales of The Witcher 2 on GOG.com, we had to add in regional pricing. The game cost different amounts in in the US, the UK, the European Union, and Australia. We're doing something like that once again in order to bring you new titles from fantastic bigger studios. Since we don't accept currencies other than USD on GOG.com right now, we'll be charging the equivalent of the local price in USD for these titles. We wish that we could offer these games at flat prices everywhere in the world, but the decision on pricing is always in our partners' hands, and regional pricing is becoming the standard around the globe. We're doing this because we believe that there's no better way to accomplish our overall goals for DRM-Free gaming and GOG.com. We need more games, devs, and publishers on board to make DRM-Free gaming something that's standard for all of the gaming world!

That brings with it more good news, though! As mentioned, we have three games we're launching soon with regional pricing--two RPGs and a strategy game--and while we can't tell you what they are yet because breaking an NDA has more severe penalties than just getting a noogie, we're confident that you'll be as excited about these games as we are. For a limited time, we will be offering anyone who pre-orders or buys one of them a free game from a selection as a gift from GOG.com, just like we did for The Witcher 2.

If you have any questions, hit us up in the comments below and we'll be happy to answer (to the best of our ability).

EDIT: Since we've answered a lot of the common questions already here (and lest you think that we've ignored you), it may be handy for you to check out the forum thread about this and search for staff answers by clicking this link here. (hat tip to user Eli who reminded us that the feature even exists. :)
Posted February 25, 2014
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JohnnyDollar: So it's often $1=€1 + applicable taxes and fees, or just $1=€1? Do they charge those fees at checkout or is it included in the listed price? Or do some do it that way while others don't?

Let's say you're local taxes/fees is 20% and you want to buy a song that's $10 in the U.S.
The final price is €10 when it should be €7.28 +20% = €8.74?
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blotunga: But in US there are also taxes. California for example has a 9.5% (if memory serves me) sales tax.
Right, so in that case they would pay $10 + 9.5%. I'm asking how it's done over where you live.
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JohnnyDollar: Is it currency exchange + add applicable taxes and fees = price you're charged?
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_Bruce_: In Australia it is no currency exchange (still charged USD), + no taxes (don't pay them for international stores) + no fees (again not relevant), + HUGE margin because we can.
Which is higher down there for a newly released game, boxed retail or digital, or about the same?
Post edited February 25, 2014 by JohnnyDollar
Posted February 25, 2014
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jorlin: I managed to save the video at his link for posterity, video AND audio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6P3yOTR2Vc&t=1194
This video is lengthier, but it goes into much more detail as to why regional pricing is a bad idea.
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N3xtGeN: OMFG hearing this now, what are you trying to become GoG?
This needs to be reposted again and again.
And that's my main concern. It's not the regional pricing itself (although that really sucks) but the fact that one of the supposedly "core" values that was emphasised earlier is being removed. That means that no other point is safe.
"Regional pricing is becoming the standard around the globe". Newsflash - DRM already is a standard around the globe. Why not introduce that point as well to support "Extra Bonus Goodies Revolution"?
Posted February 25, 2014
sorry for my bad english, it is not my native-language
I Love GOG and I bought ca 200 games (until now)
Regional pricing sucks, but is okay for me !
BUT: please no regional version of games, I hate censored games (German user know whereof I speak)
Posted February 25, 2014
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silentbob1138: No, it's not. Often it is $1=€1. Sometimes it is a little fairer. $0,99=€0,89 in the Apple App Store for example and it used to be €0,79 when the USD was weaker.
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JohnnyDollar: So it's often $1=€1 + applicable taxes and fees, or just $1=€1? Do they charge those fees at checkout or is it included in the listed price? Or do some do it that way while others don't?

Let's say your local taxes/fees is 20% and you want to buy a song that's $10 in the U.S.
The final price is €10 when it should be €7.28 +20% = €8.74?
The prices in digital business are mostly with taxes because that's what the customer has to pay and therefore it is easier to display this amount first. Then the seller has to divert the taxes himself. That is the usual practice, at least here.

It's just $1=1€ although today the real conversion rate is 1€=$1.37 which is much different.

Now I'm not sure how much taxes GOG has to pay really with all these cross-country transactions. Which is the deciding location, the buyer's location or the seller's location. For digital products over the internet the situation might be even different than for retail products. GOG has its location in Cyprus, an offshore very low tax haven as we all know. Do they pay taxes at all?

So unless we get to know the tax conditions right, any calculation can be flawed a lot. But even if you would include the full 19% VAT in germany and would assume 0% VAT in the US (in some states it is 0%?), then the conversion rate $ to € would still be much higher and couldn't be explained by the VAT alone.

It's just very complicated. By my impression is that in regional pricing there is always at least a 20-30% penalty for being European included. This is the rip-off depicted in the former video by GOG.
Post edited February 25, 2014 by Trilarion
Posted February 25, 2014
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JohnnyDollar: So it's often $1=€1 + applicable taxes and fees, or just $1=€1? Do they charge those fees at checkout or is it included in the listed price? Or do some do it that way while others don't?

Let's say your local taxes/fees is 20% and you want to buy a song that's $10 in the U.S.
The final price is €10 when it should be €7.28 +20% = €8.74?
In Germany (and I think in the rest of the EU) VAT is included in the price. It's different to the sales tax in the US that gets added to the price. If I'm not mistaken it only gets added in the US if the seller is in the same state as the buyer, though.
Posted February 25, 2014
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Paradoks: ..."Regional pricing is becoming the standard around the globe" ...
Achievements are standard too. We really need achievements on GOG. :)
Posted February 25, 2014
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Paradoks: Why not introduce that point as well to support "Extra Bonus Goodies Revolution"?
lol
Posted February 25, 2014
Oof. Tough sell guys. But we'll see how this turns out. If the games are worth it and not everything will be regionally priced by default, it might not be too bad, I guess.

Additionally, I would like a clear indication if a game is regionally priced and it would be great if you kept offering compensations for those paying more like you did in the past and will do for the upcoming ones. I realize this might not be entirely in your hands all the time (or is it?), but try to convince those publishers that they'll look like evil overlords when they don't and benevolent saints when they do. HYPERBOLE THEM INTO SUBMISSION.

Anyway, uhm *looks at huge thread full of angry people* good luck.
Posted February 25, 2014
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Trilarion: Now I'm not sure how much taxes GOG has to pay really with all these cross-country transactions. Which is the deciding location, the buyer's location or the seller's location. For digital products over the internet the situation might be even different than for retail products. GOG has its location in Cyprus, an offshore very low tax haven as we all know. Do they pay taxes at all?
The VAT rate in Cyprus where Gog is registered was just raised from 18 to 19% this year. I'm not sure if digital goods are taxed like physical products. If that is the case then Gog would have to pay the VAT rate in the buyer's country which could be slightly higher or lower if the buyer is also an EU resident.
Posted February 25, 2014
Please please don't let "big titles" be kickstarters, last 6-7 ks games I bought were way underpar (aka no depth, no replay).

My only guesses are (if not kick starters):
Rpg1: south park
Rpg2: witcher 3
Strategy: Civ 5?
Posted February 25, 2014
Biggest peeve about Impulse: we have a great promo for game X. Oh it's not applicable to your region
Posted February 25, 2014
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Trilarion: It's just very complicated.
Hehe, yeah I know. Thanks. Would you have to pay VAT for an online purchase regardless of where the seller is?
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silentbob1138: In Germany (and I think in the rest of the EU) VAT is included in the price. It's different to the sales tax in the US that gets added to the price. If I'm not mistaken it only gets added in the US if the seller is in the same state as the buyer, though.
I think it depends on the laws in that state, not just the tax itself, but the wording as to how it's collected. A friend in another state told me that Valve/Steam charges him, or maybe it was EA, I can't remember, but neither of them are based in his state. His state does have taxes for online purchases though.

I'm not exactly sure tbh. :P
Posted February 25, 2014
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blotunga: Romania ... on most sites I have to pay in euros. And on GMG for example it's worse, I have to pay GBP.
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mobutu: How much is the average income, 200-300 euros per month? all the while paying a "regional" price the same as other countries that have 1000-2000 euros per month? now thats what i call an outrageous rip off
In Romania the average raw income is 500 euro (before cuts for retirement fund, health fund, unemployment and income tax).
The average net income is 360 euro.

Even so, I'm ok to pay the regional price if this means the price for Romania is the US price + VAT (24% for Romania).
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Trilarion: It's just very complicated.
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JohnnyDollar: Hehe, yeah I know. Thanks. Would you have to pay VAT for an online purchase regardless of where the seller is?
I don't know how are things in Germany but in Romania the store (the seller) has the obligation to charge you VAT (except for the very small stores), even if the purchase is online or not.

If the seller is located in another country things get complicated but I guess he still has to charge you VAT and then to declare it and pay it to the Romanian state.
Post edited February 25, 2014 by GabiMoro
Posted February 25, 2014
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JohnnyDollar: Right, so in that case they would pay $10 + 9.5%. I'm asking how it's done over where you live.
Which is higher down there for a newly released game, boxed retail or digital, or about the same?
Well here it's just 1$ = 1euros. On GMG it's 1GBP (so it's even worse). Some sites (indigala and bundlestars) do a proper conversion and then apply VAT. That I can consider ok (although it's semi-honest, as they display the VAT only at checkout).
Posted February 25, 2014
After reading the whole thread (yes I freaking did it!) I believed that everything was said here already, now we should wait for todays "explanation".

Yet, as a Pole one thing here really creeps me out - regional currencies, which are WIP according to TeT:
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TheEnigmaticT: We will have local currencies. Soon. Let's just say that getting those on board is not going quite as fast as we'd hoped, but the goal is to be accepting EUR, AUD, GBP, and RUB in the next few months.
What that means is that, while living in Poland, I'll have to pay in EUR instead of USD. Taking into consideration the conversion rate used in gaming industry (1 USD = 1 EUR), a game worth 9.99 USD now, will cost me 9.99 EUR in a few months time. Now I have to pay some extra because of the conversion from PLN (Polish currency) to USD, which I'm actually fine with, but 9.99 USD is about 30.28 PLN, while 9.99 EUR is 41.57 PLN. That's a 37% difference in price!

Majority of you guys (I mean GoG staff) are based in Poland, right? So how do you feel about it, really? Took an arrow to the knee there?

The "free games to compensate" are nice, but you do realise that it won't work for long-time users, right?

Still I do support GoG and don't want to take part in this massive shitstorm yet. Just wanted to add my concerns to this vast pool here.

EDIT:
After reading TeT's responses again, I can see that locking out some customers is an option for you guys:

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TheEnigmaticT: True enough. And I hope that will never happen, but if it does, then there's still a game that's DRM-free in 195 other countries in the world, which seems a lot better to me than a game which is DRM-free in 0 countries.
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Community
General discussionAnnouncement: Big Preorders & Launch Day Releases Coming!(4041 posts)(4041 posts)
(4041 posts)