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timppu:
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Themken: Call me lazy but going from 19.0 to 19.1 to 19.2... I just use click upgrade. When I upgraded from 18.3 I did a fresh reinstallation; same when from 17.3. I would have settled for just formatting but also did some changes to my partition table while at it. Only problem I have run into does not exist anymore in LM 19.x.

Side note: No other OS on the laptop.
Yeah I was talking about going from major version to another, like 18.x to 19.x.

The discussion about Ubuntu possibly outing 32bit support (on driver and app level?) and that affecting WINE and other Linux gaming... not sure if I should look into the Debian version of Mint then? I just like Mint overall because they have stayed loyal to desktop PC users (while Ubuntu tried out all that silly tablet UI shit; that is when I left Ubuntu and went to Mint), and that Mint isn't so gung-ho about the open source etc. thing, but more pragmatic, giving options and using what works.

Maybe I'll try out Mint Debian first on VirtualBox, to see how it feels. What is the real difference anyway, it has less software on its repositories, compared to Ubuntu?
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timppu: The discussion about Ubuntu possibly outing 32bit support (on driver and app level?) and that affecting WINE and other Linux gaming... not sure if I should look into the Debian version of Mint then? I just like Mint overall because they have stayed loyal to desktop PC users (while Ubuntu tried out all that silly tablet UI shit; that is when I left Ubuntu and went to Mint), and that Mint isn't so gung-ho about the open source etc. thing, but more pragmatic, giving options and using what works.

Maybe I'll try out Mint Debian first on VirtualBox, to see how it feels. What is the real difference anyway, it has less software on its repositories, compared to Ubuntu?
I'll try to upgrade as well, and hopefully won't come here crying if it goes up in smoke. Having /home on a separate partition should make stuff like this safer at least.

I'm willing to give Mint a "wait and see" attitude on 32-bit support. Ubuntu I gave up long ago due to phoning home bollocks, but I like Mint. We have time yet since this won't really hit until potentially Mint 20, and I really hope the excellent development team is able to find a workable solution between now and then. If not, there will be Debian Mint waiting in the shadows.

But that would have dire consequences for users like me. I've tried pure Debian in the past, and mostly been confused. Fantastic for customisation, but I simply struggled with it and went back to Mint. Been there ever since. Would definitely prefer to stick with Mint in the foreseeable future. Everything simply works, and they seem to respect the users' right to privacy as well. Plus the desktop focus that you mentioned.
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Pangaea666: Linux Mint 19.2 has been released I see. Don't think Ubuntu's 32-bit idiocy takes effect until later, but just to be sure: Is it "safe" to upgrade to Linux Mint 19.2? We won't be losing or having reduced 32-bit support for our Wine games?
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adamhm: It should be safe to upgrade - I did the usual reinstall yesterday to upgrade & finish updating my guide, no problems at all so far :)

All 19.x releases are based on Ubuntu 18.04 so there won't be any issue with 32-bit support until Mint 20 (and the Mint team plan to continue supporting 32-bit support so they'll work something out for that & it shouldn't be an issue then either).
Cheers for this, sounds promising.

On the actual guide, would it be worth to put a section in there about the upgrade process? Or is it so simple that we basically just hit upgrade and that's that?
Post edited August 09, 2019 by Pangaea666
Hmmm, it seems I am already at Linux Mint 19.x on my main PC, I just didn't remember it. :) Or, I thought this announcement meant that just now the new 19 release got out, but is has been out for some time already.

I thought the upgrade to minor versions happens automatically, whenever you run apt-get update? I don't quite recall the versioning scheme on different distros, at work I deal mostly with Ubuntu and CentOS (server versions), occasionally Oracle and RHEL.

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Pangaea666: But that would have dire consequences for users like me. I've tried pure Debian in the past, and mostly been confused. Fantastic for customisation, but I simply struggled with it and went back to Mint.
Yesterday I first read up on what are the main differences between Debian and Ubuntu, and I got a feeling that:

- They suggested that Debian may be more confusing for a beginner to install (more on that later).

- Debian is more gung-ho about offering only open source stuff on its repositories, limiting what stuff you can get through that. Whether that is a real problem, maybe not, but I don't mind using non-open source stuff as well, as long as it works.

- Ubuntu (and Mint) uses more system resources than Debian? Not sure why.

- Debian stable branch is stable... but also quite old, ie. you don't have the latest or even semi-latest stuff on it. This might a problem to a desktop user if you get only some ancient version of apps and shit through Debian repositories. Some pages suggested desktop Debian users should possibly use the test branch instead, as it is updated more often (and still fairly stable?).

Anyways, I went on to install both vanilla Debian (XFCE) and Mint Debian on VirtualBox. Findings:

- I have no idea what the complaints of Debian being hard(er) to install were. To me it seemed pretty much the same as installing e.g. Ubuntu or CentOS. It asks pretty much the same questions, most of the time selecting just the default values are fine etc. What is confusing about it, that part where you can select which desktop environment to use (I chose XFCE because I like its simplicity and low overhead)?

The only comment for the installation was that by default it suggested partitioning the hard disk(s) without LVM. I don't recall if Ubuntu and CentOS do the same (ie. you have to specifically tell them to use LVM if you want it), but... to this day and age, is there any reason NOT to use LVM on desktop and server systems? Maybe it is not needed on Rasperry Pi and embedded systems, but whatever... I just chose LVM as I felt it may make life easier if I later want to expand partitions/volumes etc. At least at work we always use LVM for this very reason.

- Using the Debian vanilla system, nothing uncommon, I felt right at home. Ok it didn't have VLC installed by default but it had some other media player, but that was easily fixed with "sudo apt install vlc".

- Mint Debian seemed to get stuck at the end of the installation from the live CD media, I just gave the virtual machine a power off at that point. Not sure what that was about, I haven't checked yet whether that system comes up again or whether I have to reinstall it.

- The Mint Debian page suggested that this is merely some kind of "test version" from them to see how much work it would be for them to switch to Debian as the base, if they had to abandon Ubuntu. So I am unsure how supported the Mint Debian is, or whether one should go straight to vanilla Debian, if so inclined.
Post edited August 10, 2019 by timppu
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Pangaea666: On the actual guide, would it be worth to put a section in there about the upgrade process? Or is it so simple that we basically just hit upgrade and that's that?
Details about the upgrade process are posted to Mint's blog after each new release: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3792
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Pangaea666: On the actual guide, would it be worth to put a section in there about the upgrade process? Or is it so simple that we basically just hit upgrade and that's that?
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adamhm: Details about the upgrade process are posted to Mint's blog after each new release: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3792
Thanks for the link. Carried out the upgrade now, and it seems to have gone very well. No hickups and the system started up just fine. Hopefully I won't discover any ill effects moving forward either. Cheers again for the support and the excellent guide.