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General discussionA bizarre idea for Levels in an RPG(11 posts)(11 posts)
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Posted June 23, 2016
I just thought of an idea for a RPG mechanic that many people will find to be rather strange.

In a typical RPG, as you kill enemies, you earn EXP, which in turn allows the character to gain levels. At higher levels, characters are more powerful.

The rather strange idea I propose is the following: Instead of level being tied to EXP, a character's level can be set to whatever the player desires. For example, you can set a character's level to 99 (or whatever the cap is) to make the early game easy, and then change it to 1 for the final boss in order for it to be a challenge.

Here's another important fact: This level setting mechanic is presented as a core mechanic of the game; in particular, it is *not* presented as a cheat or anything like that. (It is, however, a way to control the difficulty.)

How does this idea sound?

(Also, how well would this idea work if the enemies scaled to your level?)
Posted June 23, 2016
This reminds me of the leveling system in The World Ends With You.
Your level increases your hp, you can turn that down at any time outside of battles, enemy drop rates increase accordingly.
Posted June 23, 2016
I think it might work, it would just have to be presented in such a way as to make it contextually meaningful to the player -- and that would be the hard part. Your idea sounds like it might be worth pursuing for a Ludum Dare-type of concept too.

omega64's comment reminds me of a similar system used in God Hand, too.
Posted June 23, 2016
I like great control of difficulty especially over multiple ascepts of the game but I prefer them also to be set automatic so it feels like it's part of a changing game world rather than being so artificially manual and static.

I'm not sure if I would like but I wonder if it would be fun to play a game where the real/relativa difficulty lowers everytime you make a set back so everytime you try again it's going to be easier, making the old trial and error more likely to feel less like rigid work and more about progress that almost automatically happens. Of course, at the same time once you succeed one part or the one you lost, your earlier difficulty will reverts to what it was prior to losing that particular part. This would force a constant challenge through out the game, ever increasing as you succeed but also making it easier to recoup a loss by automatically making it slightly easier the next time you play.

I would also like more games where loss is part of the game, I never much liked the game over-approach. It's too binary.
Posted June 23, 2016
So without striving to level up to unlock new abilitys or perks or whatever, what fills the void for the reward system? Items? Cash? Weapons?
Story or accomplishment alone won't drive a lot of gamers (young gamers for example) to stick to a game without having their ego stroked or rewarded regularly.
Posted June 23, 2016
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noir_7: So without striving to level up to unlock new abilitys or perks or whatever, what fills the void for the reward system? Items? Cash? Weapons?
Story or accomplishment alone won't drive a lot of gamers (young gamers for example) to stick to a game without having their ego stroked or rewarded regularly.
^This is true. A fact about human nature is that we don't appreciate things that come easily. For example, if someone hands you a book and says, "I finished this book already and it's great." Chances are you won't enjoy it as much as they did, or as much as you would if you paid for it with your own money. Same thing goes with levels that can be gained with a click.
Posted June 23, 2016
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Nirth: I like great control of difficulty especially over multiple ascepts of the game but I prefer them also to be set automatic so it feels like it's part of a changing game world rather than being so artificially manual and static.

I'm not sure if I would like but I wonder if it would be fun to play a game where the real/relativa difficulty lowers everytime you make a set back so everytime you try again it's going to be easier, making the old trial and error more likely to feel less like rigid work and more about progress that almost automatically happens. Of course, at the same time once you succeed one part or the one you lost, your earlier difficulty will reverts to what it was prior to losing that particular part. This would force a constant challenge through out the game, ever increasing as you succeed but also making it easier to recoup a loss by automatically making it slightly easier the next time you play.

I would also like more games where loss is part of the game, I never much liked the game over-approach. It's too binary.
Extra Credits talked about this. It's generally not adviced. The player WILL notice it, and feel like the game is taking pity or outright mocking them. Ninja Gaiden for the original Xbox actually outright DID mock you if you died several times and then switched to the easier setting. It also has the downside of not teaching the player properly.

And a fun comic.
Posted June 23, 2016
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noir_7: So without striving to level up to unlock new abilitys or perks or whatever, what fills the void for the reward system? Items? Cash? Weapons?
Story or accomplishment alone won't drive a lot of gamers (young gamers for example) to stick to a game without having their ego stroked or rewarded regularly.
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Gerin: ^This is true. A fact about human nature is that we don't appreciate things that come easily. For example, if someone hands you a book and says, "I finished this book already and it's great." Chances are you won't enjoy it as much as they did, or as much as you would if you paid for it with your own money. Same thing goes with levels that can be gained with a click.
100% this. RPG genere is entirely based on the idea of character progression - grinding mobs for more exp and loot, so removing this aspect would be equal to removing the whole reward mechanism that makes game fun.
Posted June 23, 2016
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noir_7: So without striving to level up to unlock new abilitys or perks or whatever, what fills the void for the reward system? Items? Cash? Weapons?
Story or accomplishment alone won't drive a lot of gamers (young gamers for example) to stick to a game without having their ego stroked or rewarded regularly.
Various items and spells could be located in different areas of the game.

If we put level restrictions on certain abilities and items, have different abilities scale differently (some would scale well to high levels, while others would be better at low levels), and have enemies scale to your level, the decision about which level to set your characters to could become an interesting choice. Maybe you want to be level 1 because this ability does, say, 1000 damage regardless of your level. Or, maybe this powerful time stopping spell requires that you be level 60, and happens to be just what you need to beat this boss.
Posted June 23, 2016
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noir_7: So without striving to level up to unlock new abilitys or perks or whatever, what fills the void for the reward system? Items? Cash? Weapons?
Story or accomplishment alone won't drive a lot of gamers (young gamers for example) to stick to a game without having their ego stroked or rewarded regularly.
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dtgreene: Various items and spells could be located in different areas of the game.

If we put level restrictions on certain abilities and items, have different abilities scale differently (some would scale well to high levels, while others would be better at low levels), and have enemies scale to your level, the decision about which level to set your characters to could become an interesting choice. Maybe you want to be level 1 because this ability does, say, 1000 damage regardless of your level. Or, maybe this powerful time stopping spell requires that you be level 60, and happens to be just what you need to beat this boss.
For some reason, perhaps my lizard brain, the first thing I thought of was the Dresspheres from FF-X2.
Not quite the same thing though. Anyhoo, sell your concept to some jrpg developer. They're probably running out of ideas by now.
Posted June 23, 2016
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Prah: Extra Credits talked about this. It's generally not adviced. The player WILL notice it, and feel like the game is taking pity or outright mocking them. Ninja Gaiden for the original Xbox actually outright DID mock you if you died several times and then switched to the easier setting. It also has the downside of not teaching the player properly.

And a fun comic.
I remember that episode, but not the details. I wonder if the scaling could be manually changed or perhaps even recorded by playing, the game records a good balance and change accordingly. I find myself rarely challenged in video games I must admit, it's like a very, very small window of opportunity of which it easily slips into tedious boredom or wasteful frustration.
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General discussionA bizarre idea for Levels in an RPG(11 posts)(11 posts)
(11 posts)