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Greywolf1: The TES series was certainly inspired by D&D, plus by all other RPG worlds / systems of the time, but I wouldn't call it a "clone" (for example, TES has usage-based stat development).
The discussion whether or not TES games are RPG's is a bit academic, in my mind, and I'm inclined to say, call it whatever you like, as long as I have fun.

You may have heard of the guy who calls himself crpgaddict, and his blog. There you find his definition of an RPG:
1) character leveling and development,
2) combats based at least partly on attribute-derived statistics,
3) inventories consisting of something other than just puzzle items.
You can agree or disagree, but there is no doubt that the combat system of Oblivion and Skyrim meets #2, is there?
I think the link you want is this one: http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-is-crpg.html


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Daishaclaire: This topic drives me batty, I must say. If you pile up the differences between TES3 and 4/5, IMO it gets more D&D-like, often specifically more like later editions of D&D featuring a horrid control-freak DM, Maybe it's unfair, but I associate D&D with the worst aspects of tabletop play simply because it's often the default for inexperienced game masters, so I consider most of the player-coddling changes to increase D&D-likeness.

Ways D&D similarity increased between 3 and 5:
* Armor slots were whittled down from 9 to 5.
* unfamiliar-to-D&D-heads magic school of mysticism was eliminated,
* alchemy equipment went from varied pieces of varied quality to an unspecific, undifferentiated, on/off alchemy lab
* clothing begins to conflict with armor
* challenges become character-matched instead of static, just like an invisible dungeon master in the background is trying to save the PC from his/her terrible, moronic choices regarding where to go and what to do.
* rewards become character-matched, like an invisible dungeon master is loathe to give a level 2 character a +5 artifact weapon, even if they come up with a very clever way to steal one.
* Essential NPCs simply get bulletproofed, like a DM who refuses to have his story spoiled, whereas Morrowind will roll with the punches like an old-school DM
* Perks (AKA "Feats") implemented
* undead-raising necromantic spells begin to depend on the actual presence of dead bodies

Exceptions to the trend of increasing D&D-likeness:
* Character attributes go AWOL, an absurd overreaction to the PITA of proper levelling in 3/4
* transition to always hitting if it looks like you hit as a combat mechanic, relegating weapon skill to only damage increases
* Weapon diversity decreased significantly, whereas D&D has long been a great source of weapon diversity.
* medium armor disappears
I agree with all the points mentioned.

However, to be fair, if the presence of dead bodies is not required for undead-raising necromancy spells how would such spells differ from summoning spells? Specifically those that summon skeletons, liches, and the like? Or are you saying that a necromancer is a specific type of summoner?
I wasn't specifically criticizing the requirement of raw materials for necromantic success, I was just listing it as a way TES came into line with D&D rather than diverging from it between 3 and 5. I think it makes sense. I also like the addition of perks. I dislike basically every other change I listed, though. Even though I'm whining in another thread about getting murdered too hard. I just had a run of assassins when I really needed a nap. ;)
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jackster79: I think the link you want is this one: http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-is-crpg.html
I was quoting from another link, but yours is fine, too. In my mind, this discussion lacks from an agreed definition of what an RPG is, and the one from the crpgaddict is probably as good or bad as any. By the way, I personally see no reason to make fighting a necessary requirement for an RPG, but I seem to be quite alone with this. :-)
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jackster79: I think the link you want is this one: http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-is-crpg.html
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Greywolf1: I was quoting from another link, but yours is fine, too. In my mind, this discussion lacks from an agreed definition of what an RPG is, and the one from the crpgaddict is probably as good or bad as any. By the way, I personally see no reason to make fighting a necessary requirement for an RPG, but I seem to be quite alone with this. :-)
I agree. At the most abstract level, an RPG is just that: a role that one plays. Fighting may or may not enter the picture. And I realized why progression through the ranks of the TES guilds sometimes feels unsatisfying to me: as one gets higher up, the role would change from "field work" to "desk work", and thus from being a single-player-style RPG to one that is more strategy-based, because those higher up do not deal with much of the nitty-gritty work the lower-level grunts do.

So really, a RTS-game is a RPG in the sense you (the player) are in the role of a field-commander micro-managing a battle. A grand-strategy game is a RPG in the sense that you (the player) are plotting with broad strokes how to improve your faction.

I believe a true RPG would allow for not just horizontal improvement (which is where one gets better at skills and such) but vertical improvement, which by definition requires that roles get changed via promotions and thus responsibilities. This would mean you start out doing ye-olde-fetch-quests, and end up plotting faction expansion and resources.
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jackster79: I believe a true RPG would allow for not just horizontal improvement (which is where one gets better at skills and such) but vertical improvement, which by definition requires that roles get changed via promotions and thus responsibilities. This would mean you start out doing ye-olde-fetch-quests, and end up plotting faction expansion and resources.
So improvemens like in Doom, Duke Nukem 3D and such where you play role of mercenary or soldier to save the world from alien invasion and get upgrades mostly in weapons which shoot in different way and get better skills as a player? You start with simple missions and end up stopping Demon Matriarch and whom not.
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jackster79: So really, a RTS-game is a RPG in the sense you (the player) are in the role of a field-commander micro-managing a battle. A grand-strategy game is a RPG in the sense that you (the player) are plotting with broad strokes how to improve your faction.
And sport simulator game is RPG because you are in the role of sportsman, micro-managing such-and-such sport activity?

No, RPGs have strict definition by its game mechanics. RTS and RPG are entirely different genres. "Playing role" isn't much more important in RPGs than in card games. It just so happened that this video game genre got these words in its name. They might be important for tabletop RPGs but not for computer/console video games.