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Deviate: It's my opinion, and that's what I put on paper when I review something. The thing is, nostalgia is all well and good but it tends to put a rosy tint on the hindsight. And seriously, start reading the posts before replying. I said was great. Was magnificent.
For it's time.
Things change. And when I write reviews I write them for today's gamers who might not have the benefit of experience that we older gamers have.

I don't doubt these are your opinions...not for one moment did I think you were transcribing someone else's opinions.
I can also assure you I read and understood every word of what you posted. I am just trying to sort out the contradictions.
Convince me you actually read my post and explain how comparing 15 year old games to modern games is useful or informative and not just stating the obvious.
I'm done...you can have the last word.
I don't compare a 15 year old game with today's games. I'm comparing the game's content/presentation with the experiences and expectations brought on by today's games. And judging it from there.
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Deviate: I don't compare a 15 year old game with today's games. I'm comparing the game's content/presentation with the experiences and expectations brought on by today's games. And judging it from there.

I respect your opinion, but I would much rather judge the game for the game. Of course Duke Nukem does not use the Crytek 2.0 engine, and therefore would look horrible. Of course, it's gameplay is stodgy because developers have stepped up (I would hope so) the fluidity and "fun" factor of a game. And if you are writing your review for other people who do not know Duke from the Governator, then why are you writing your review? It should be from your perspective and not bogged down by what other people think. Besides, I think that most of the players on GOG know that the quality of old games pales in comparison to say, Half-Life 2.
But to end on a good note, I commend you for not just throwing another perfect score at Duke Nukem. Thank you for actually having a brain and showing a different side of Duke!
Anyone playing a 13 year old game for the first time should not have expectations that it would compare to 2009 type game tech. If they do they are idiots which I don't think most gamers are. I can't be sure of that though. Using the EDuke32 port, a mod like DukePlus and the High Resolution Pack can make a hugh difference when playing Duke. Level design will stay the same but gameplay, controls and visual quality are greatly enhanced. Even playing Duke without them I would still rate it at least good with a 3/5 for new players.
++ Review, Deviate. You called it like you see it. So many here seem unable to take off the rose-colored glasses for a few seconds. TECHNICALLY, the game has aged poorly. THANKFULLY, with a few mods (EDuke and the hi-res mod in particular,) it becomes much more approachable to Duke newbies -- being able to adjust the control scheme to fit the habits of modern PC gamers for instance.
Where the game shines brightest to this day is in its level of interactivity -- a pool table you can play with, a karaoke mic you can embarrass yourself in front of, and many, MANY pixellated b**bies that appeal to everyone's inner-teenage male, just to name a few. Also, the enormity of sci-fi and video game in-jokes hidden in little corners of the game... everywhere. ("That's one DOOMed space marine," "USS Dallas," many more.)
I'd suggest the following to newcomers (and fellow... oldcomers?): Buy the game. Download EDuke to update the available screen resolutions, tweak the controls, and keep Vista from hounding you for an admin password every freaking time you play the game. Play around in each of the four episodes for a few days. (For exploratory purposes, I give you permission to use the god mode code if you get stuck -- type D N K R O Z or D N C O R N H O L I O at any time during a game to turn it on or off. D N C A S H M A N is pretty amusing too, BTW.) Experience what a lot of us did back in '96: sprites, blocky textures, and unforgettably corny one-liners.
Then, in a few weeks download the high-resolution pack, 3-d models, etc., and play through the whole thing in glorious, fan-made polygonal glory. It's still a damn good, tricky, above-average game. Thanks to GOG, and legions of hard-working fans, you CAN have your cake AND eat it. ("You wanna' piece of me? Suck it down!")
My glasses are blue tinted not rose colored. LOL Yes you are right. Duk3d is one of my favorite games so I am biased. I remember first playing Ultimate Doom after playing the Doom95 shareware version. The image quality was so poor compared to Doom95 I thought I did something wrong when i installed it but thats just the way it was back then. But hey $5.99 for Duke3D is still a deal.
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johnseeking: TECHNICALLY, the game has aged poorly.

What I strongly disagree here with is this. If you'd been playing and modding the game all these years since 1996 and seeing through the development of the original EDuke, then later on the source ports and finally seeing the evolution of the Polymost renderer, I don't think people would have such a big problem with the game as they do now.
That's just my view on this.
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eddym4814: My glasses are blue tinted not rose colored.

This reminds me, EDuke32 supports 3D glasses, yes, you can play Duke Nukem 3D with a proper 3D mode :D The original LameDuke had this mode as well and it went all the way into the final game (the code was there, but it wasn't until EDuke32 it was enabled).
Just type r_redbluemode 1 into the console and you're off!
I attached three screenshots of this very mode so you can preview it if you can dig out 3D glasses. While the mode looks fantastic in screenshots, it's really amazing in-game.
Attachments:
duke0008.jpg (203 Kb)
duke0010.jpg (104 Kb)
duke0015.jpg (195 Kb)
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Daedolon: If you'd been playing and modding the game all these years since 1996 ...

If I'd been playing the same PC game religiously for the last 13 years, wouldn't that teeter on obsessive/compulsive disorder? Just sayin'... ;)
Anyway, I'm doubtful that the majority of the people who wil be interested in buying and playing Duke NOW will be of a similar background to yours, Dae.
Post edited February 28, 2009 by johnseeking
Quake looked like crap then and now. It doesn't matter that it was technically superior, artisitcally it was not. The model animation in vanilla Quake are worse than sprites.
If you want Duke to be like Quake, the one just needs to download the horrible HRP with animations that are on par with Quake. Hell Quake in it's brown glory looks better than the HRP.
Complaining about controls for this game is ridiculous though. Mouse look is NOT required for Duke, not required for Doom, not required for ROTT. It's from the ERA where auto aim was completely fine on PC because there was no perfect MOUSE + KEYBOARD combination at that moment. Not to mention you only ever needed to aim manually in Duke 3D a couple times that using PAGE UP and PAGE DOWN and HOME and END was hardly anything annoying.
By the OP logic, a fantastic game like X-Com or Fallout should be passed up by todays graphic whore based society of gamers. If they don't care about gameplay, sure, but those are the same users that flock to the mindless shooters that are coming out of a grinder like crazy.
Duke may not stack up graphically if you play it 320x200 today, but throw in one of the source ports or just run it in 800x600 through that VESA stuff and it still looks sharp.
It's more than nostalgia, the gameplay and the maps do stand the test of time fine.
Opinions. These are mine, and you can post your own review if you have differing opinions.
The thing is, Quake had a different art style. It was technically very superior to Duke, and the art and animation was made to be drab, dark and so on with intent. Thus it can't be said to be worse than Duke's style or graphics as it is merely catering to a different audience.
And I wasn't complaining about the controls. I was pointing out how old they are. In fact, that's the entire purpose of my entire review, pointing out which parts of Duke 3D didn't age well. Which is all of it, really, except for the concept itself.
If you feel it's up to the task of competing with later shooters in level design, gameplay and controls, it's your call. But I know for a fact that it just doesn't...
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Deviate: Opinions. These are mine, and you can post your own review if you have differing opinions.
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Deviate: If you feel it's up to the task of competing with later shooters in level design, gameplay and controls, it's your call. But I know for a fact that it just doesn't...

I rest my case.
I think it's impossible for people to make you see the solid good points in Duke, you just don't like the game. What can we do.
What? I like the game. I am just not blind to it's faults and horrible aging.
I agree with Deviate on this one, and before anyone comes and accuses me of not liking the game, I do. I bought it as soon I knew it was here to replace my other not quite so legal version.
What Deviate is saying is not that he do not like the game, but that it has not aged so well. And to be frank, it hasn’t. There are other games that have aged better, like Doom, and one of the main reasons I think is the art designs and game design differences in those games. We are not talking about engines or technical achievements here. If we still use Doom as an example of a game that have aged better, it just have a tighter and better game design, while Duke shows some faults now that you can look at the game without focusing on the technical parts of it.
You can draw comparison to a T-Ford, maybe, the car and the productions of it was great for its time. For the car aficionados it is still a great car, but I would not recommend a first time car owner to buy it.
Duke Nukem 3d was a great game for its time, it still have a huge support base of fans (like me), but it is unfortunately not one of those games that have aged to well. I do recommend it to those I know that like games and like gaming history, but it is also not the game that I would say is the first game to start with in any case. I will still play and enjoy it for a long time yet, as I am sure Deviate will also, but I am not so blind that I cannot see its faults.
Post edited March 04, 2009 by amok
Oh, come on, Deviate is pretty much right. For starters, it's HIS opinion. Also, I've played Duke 3D on keyboyard back 'then', but this duke set for today's controls FEELS wrong - and today's FPS player probably won't get accustomed to this control scheme. Yes, it IS good old games, but people playing good NEW games are comming here as well to try some old classics...
Not to mention there are enough 'Duke is so awesome!' reviews as it is. It never hurts to see another opinion.
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Fenixp: Oh, come on, Deviate is pretty much right. For starters, it's HIS opinion.

He said it's a fact.
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Fenixp: today's FPS player probably won't get accustomed to this control scheme.

WASD + mouse is fully supported by vanilla Duke3D.