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Jonesy89: On topic, when I was talking to NSF prisoners about their ideology without them ever coming across as strawman "bad guys". It might not sound like a lot, but in this country, that's amazingly rare in the various art forms, particularly videogames.
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IwubCheeze: Actually, in my opinion anyway, that is a lot because the opposing force having actual motives and not relying on the "good guy / bad guy" mechanic makes the game a lot more believable that draws you in.

How often to we see enemies depicted as "I'm so evil!!! I do bad stuff cos it's evil and evil is me, MWA HA HA HA HA HA". This trope usually goes hand in hand with the "good guys" always win and "bad guys" always lose trope as well. In this scenerio, you already know the outcome of the game, movie, book, whatever from the intro. Bad guy does bad stuff, good guy has to go through inconsequential bad stuff to get to the bad guy, bad guy does something stupid, good guy whacks the bad guy, good guy is a hero and goes home to bang the prom queen or whatever. Once it's all said and done, it is pretty easy not to care cos we've seem this crap countless times already in books, movies, comics yadda yadda yadda and why should we? The characters have no depth, no relatability, no feeling of suspense, no sense of emotion, nothing memorable at all. I'm sure you remember us talking about that in another certain game here on GoG? ;)

A game world with actual conflicting values where morality isn't black and white actually does wonders for the immersion factor. I would like to see more of it in story oriented games.
To an extent that's it, but what really made it impressive was that they were the sort of group that, had this game been made now, the game would have either hammered on the "they a turrist" button to forestall any examination of the things they have to say about the government in the confines of the setting (especially given how eerily representative of the US government UNATCO looks in hindsight) or they would have taken steps to make them less relatable because the devs might otherwise get accused of hating our freedoms or some such rubbish by virtue of making the player wonder if any move the government makes is reprehensible.
Post edited July 11, 2014 by Jonesy89
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Jonesy89: To an extent that's it, but what really made it impressive was that they were the sort of group that, had this game been made now, the game would have either hammered on the "they a turrist" button to forestall any examination of the things they have to say about the government in the confines of the setting (especially given how eerily representative of the US government UNATCO looks in hindsight) or they would have taken steps to make them less relatable because the devs might otherwise get accused of hating our freedoms or some such rubbish by virtue of making the player wonder if any move the government makes is reprehensible.
Had the story been written today there would be too many parallels with the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street crammed in there to make the game appear topical and it would be called out on it.

The most striking feature to me about the NSF is that while they are all wearing masks, many times when you listen to them talk they are genuine people. More so than what you usually get in games when you overhear conversations. There are even points in the game where you meet members who are not interested in a fight to the death upon sight. That is exceptionally realistic. I think Deus Ex 2 did this right as well, you run into plenty of people who clearly belong to different factions but they are still spending time NOT fighting and will not automatically start a fight to the death just anywhere.

Real life is not as black and white as most people assume, especially when it comes to insurgencies. It is easy to condemn a group by name, but on the ground they are made up of individuals and civilians who meet them tend to judge them on an individual basis. No such thing as "Harboring the enemy" when in practical terms you are sharing food with a starving stranger or treating them for injuries. On that note, do not judge whole populations for not reporting, fighting or running away from insurgents. You have no idea what their relationship truly is, and it is probably not a for or against situation. Humans interact and feel compassion in times of hardship, politics and ideology be damned.
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Sufyan: The most striking feature to me about the NSF is that while they are all wearing masks, many times when you listen to them talk they are genuine people. More so than what you usually get in games when you overhear conversations. There are even points in the game where you meet members who are not interested in a fight to the death upon sight. That is exceptionally realistic. I think Deus Ex 2 did this right as well, you run into plenty of people who clearly belong to different factions but they are still spending time NOT fighting and will not automatically start a fight to the death just anywhere.
Real life is not as black and white as most people assume, especially when it comes to insurgencies. It is easy to condemn a group by name, but on the ground they are made up of individuals and civilians who meet them tend to judge them on an individual basis. You have no idea what populations relationship truly is, and it is probably not a for or against situation. Humans interact and feel compassion in times of hardship, politics and ideology be damned.
Yeah, I don't remember when I realize that DX was a good game. However it was late, for DX1 is too much caricatural on politics.

"when you listen to faction members talk, they are genuine people. More so than what you usually get in games when you overhear conversations. There are even points in the game where you meet members who are not interested in a fight to the death upon sight. That is exceptionally realistic. I think Deus Ex 2 did this right as well,"
I'll even say that DX2 did it better, and that's why I finally prefer it.
I remember when I realized that DX2 was an amazing game: when in a club, a waiter chat about geopolitics with me!,
but I don't remember for DX1... even at first I shooted against DX2 at release...
Post edited July 15, 2014 by ERISS
only just got it and realization dripped in during first mission as it seemed I was completely free in how to handle getting to the top. I still have to fight against the handheld urges as i'm continually thinking "am I supposed to do this" ;)
Pretty much from the start i think. Spoilers of course, beware:

The Lebedev situation was amazing and i really remembered that well but some of the most memorable bits were the first messages from the AIs. Was that in the Unatco prison? Not sure, should play again ;) That was really creepy and i just thought: Who the hell was that. Great stuff.

Also on later playthroughs i discovered that hidden MJ12 lab in NY and thought it was great how one could have found that very early on in the game without having a clue who these guys are supposed to be.

Also all the Paris levels, they're still my favorite part of the game. With the bots open in the streets and everyone under lockdown. Amazing how much atmosphere it has, given the engine limitations. The music in those levels is perfect too.

Compare that to the claustrophobic little circle thats supposed to be Trier in part 2...
For me it was gradual progression.

I got so immersed, I cried a little when it was over.

But then I found out, SPOILER you could save your brother.

My second walkthrough was all guns out, and the game recognised that. Was impressed.

By the way did you know there's a team doing a Revision Mod for Deus Ex. I hope it comes soon so I can play Deus Ex over again before Witcher 3 comes out
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ignisferroque: Compare that to the claustrophobic little circle thats supposed to be Trier in part 2...
*sigh*

If only Invisible War was as good as the original. I wouldn't even care if it had the same engine and barely did anything new. Just give me the same gameplay with new story, and the original composers for some epic music.
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NameTheftVictim: What was your moment?
It is still every time I watch Continuum or Ghost in the shell series.