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Arachnarok_Rider: And The Matrix is SJW content, beyond any question.
As I said earlier, I never use the term, but your assertion makes no sense. If a work only "turns out" to be about something and can't actually be identified as such, then it is de facto not "SJW" fare.

People who complain about something being "SJW" as a rule complain about it because it is blatant and undeniable. Whatever one personally thinks about the subject in question, that's the entire reason they complain.

In my experience it's usually concepts that are gratuitous, overdone, illogical, or otherwise "shoehorned in", but even if not, it is ridiculous to characterize that type of complaint as directed toward subtle, understated, or entirely opaque implementations.

Also, to drive home my point:

It turns out that The Matrix was actually a tale of Communist revolution. For those who never saw it (or simply forgot), The Matrix is a story about the boring Mr Anderson, who can't shake this feeling that something is wrong in his life. He gets the option and decides to take a truth pill. Leaving the constrictions of programmed behavior behind, he transforms into the rule-breaker Neo, who unlike "Mr Anderson" actually can confront the suit-and-tie enforcers of the status quo. And as the system is slowly breaking down under the weight of status quo being out of control, it turns out that Neo's volatility and rule-breaking is actually a necessary component for a stable system.
Post edited August 13, 2020 by Dryspace
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Arachnarok_Rider: And The Matrix is SJW content, beyond any question.
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Dryspace: As I said earlier, I never use the term, but your assertion makes no sense. If a work only "turns out" to be about something and can't actually be identified as such, then it is de facto not "SJW" fare.

People who complain about something being "SJW" as a rule complain about it because it is blatant and undeniable. Whatever one personally thinks about the subject in question, that's the entire reason they complain.

In my experience it's usually concepts that are gratuitous, overdone, illogical, or otherwise "shoehorned in", but even if not, it is ridiculous to characterize that type of complaint as directed toward subtle, understated, or entirely opaque implementations.

Also, to drive home my point:

It turns out that The Matrix was actually a tale of Communist revolution. For those who never saw it (or simply forgot), The Matrix is a story about the boring Mr Anderson, who can't shake this feeling that something is wrong in his life. He gets the option and decides to take a truth pill. Leaving the constrictions of programmed behavior behind, he transforms into the rule-breaker Neo, who unlike "Mr Anderson" actually can confront the suit-and-tie enforcers of the status quo. And as the system is slowly breaking down under the weight of status quo being out of control, it turns out that Neo's volatility and rule-breaking is actually a necessary component for a stable system.
It is a funny notion that if SJW content creators create SJW content that is sufficiently nuanced and subtle that the SJW angle isn't immediately obvious then it is "de facto" not SJW content. That's not really how it works, though. The best works of art are those where the nuances are not immediately obvious.

As for your "rewrite", that's a nice strawman but that's all it is, because nothing about the story has any connection with communism, at least not as far as I can tell. The angle just isn't there. Meanwhile, the Wachowskis have confirmed the SJW angle, so there's really not a whole lot to argue about. The Matrix is SJW content. It wasn't obvious to me the first five times I saw that movie, and I'm guessing it wasn't obvious to you either, but then maybe neither of us are all that observant, and maybe neither of us are all that sensitive to those particular nuances.

The reason The Matrix is important is because clearly it turns out that SJWs can in fact make good content. It turns out that SJWs are not necessarily incompetent, destined to only create garbage. In other words, it turns out the premise for the majority of the negativity in this topic is absolute nonsense.

Now, if you want to argue that often the complaints about "SJW content" are justified because the particular SJW content getting complained about is unejoyable and simply preaches some idea with all the subtlety of getting kicked in the balls by a donkey, then sure, I agree. But then the issue isn't so much that it is "SJW content", but rather that it is rubbish content that just happens to have a SJW theme.
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Arachnarok_Rider: It is a funny notion that if SJW content creators create SJW content that is sufficiently nuanced and subtle that the SJW angle isn't immediately obvious then it is "de facto" not SJW content.
Speaking of straw men--and I'm not asserting that it is deliberate--you are arguing from assumptions that don't make sense to me. You are basically defining 'Social Justice Warrior' as something akin to 'leftist', and thus 'SJW content' as 'leftist content'.

As far as I'm aware, the term refers not to a person who believes a particular thing or expresses it in one manner or another, but to one who champions particular groups he perceives as wronged--very often groups that he is not himself a member of--and attempts to ensure they--both personally and conceptually--are not mistreated, maligned or excluded, and instead are represented, characterized, referred to, and treated of in a positive and/or "equal" manner. He does this by using the power or platforms available to him in order to "police" others, to condemn an individual or organization for saying or doing the "wrong" thing, or not saying or doing the "right" thing, as the case may be.

The word 'justice' refers to the attempt to right perceived wrongs, and the term 'warrior' refers to the decidely un-subtle nature of his tactics.

If this is the case, then "SJW content" is anything that exists as a result of "SJWs" having successfully convinced or coerced an individual or organization to make changes or "corrections" that otherwise would not have been made.

Your dismissal of my Matrix point is illegitimate. My entire point was to demonstrate that the assertion of The Matrix as unambiguously "a tale of gender transformation" can not be supported by anything but the word of the creators. It's just as possible to parse it in that context as it is a context of Communist revolution, or the wresting of the Bible from the Catholic Church, and possibly any number of other things. I deliberately took each point, and tried to think of another context that would fit each point just as well, without contradiction, and that was the first that came to mind.

But at any rate, according to my understanding, The Matrix would not be an example of anything that a person would view or complain about as "SJW" fare.
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Arachnarok_Rider: And The Matrix is SJW content, beyond any question.
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Dryspace: People who complain about something being "SJW" as a rule complain about it because it is blatant and undeniable. Whatever one personally thinks about the subject in question, that's the entire reason they complain.

In my experience it's usually concepts that are gratuitous, overdone, illogical, or otherwise "shoehorned in", but even if not, it is ridiculous to characterize that type of complaint as directed toward subtle, understated, or entirely opaque implementations.
Right... I don't think most of the people complaining about sjw content would object to political content that is explored in a tasteful way in the context of a game story, such as the attempt to subtly convey a political message through the intelligent and thought-provoking use of an allegory.

I would also suggest that political messaging in games should not be only going one direction. If you make a game expressing a certain message, at some point (not necessarily soon or immediately) ... I would like to see a game that expresses the opposite viewpoint. Not just the same general message repeated routinely throughout sci-fi games/movies/tv over and over to the point it gets repetitive and sometimes even predictable. And, tbh, starts to feel like propganda.
Post edited August 16, 2020 by temps
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Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
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lace_gardenia: anyone else have any idea what the supposed anger-inducing content in me:a is supposed to be?
(besides the bugs)
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I don't believe anyone said he was angry, or expressed himself in a manner that conveyed anger?
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Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
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lace_gardenia: i think you know what i mean.

edit: you know, content that makes status-quo warriors upset
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I can't be the only one who doesn't know what a 'status quo warrior' is! My guess would be that you are defining change that you agree with as 'progress' so that you can characterize anyone who disagrees with that change as "pro-status quo" or "anti-progress"--rather than as a person who possesses a differing viewpoint that may or may not be consistent with fact and logic.

As far as the 'warrior' part, I think it's clear that applying the descriptor to a person who only dislikes or opposes a thing is nonsensical. I don't think I would be a 'cauliflower warrior' simply because I dislike seeing it on my plate?

I can't offer any insight on Mass Effect: Andromeda as I have neither played nor complained about it. Though if you want to discuss the subject of so-called "Social Justice Warriors" you can message me any time. The subject has origins going back at least 60 years.
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Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
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lace_gardenia: see how easy that was?
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I have to agree: not playing it was an easy thing to do. :P
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ernexus: I heard some rumors on various forums and comments that CDPR hired some of the ME: Andromeda former developers? Is it really true? Does anyone know more about it?

I really hope they didn't. We saw what they managed to deliver and totally ruined ME series.
after watching Postcards from Night City trailer, it wouldn't surprise me tbh
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bruta: after watching Postcards from Night City trailer, it wouldn't surprise me tbh
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I'm genuinely afraid to ask....I've been avoiding all spoilers, and still and moving imagery since ~2018, as I prefer to go into things blind.
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Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
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lace_gardenia: is this thing still going?

https://youtu.be/moSFlvxnbgk?t=58
Oh, Ms "Ban-all-the-dissenting" is still angry that not everyone is happy with SJW trend?
Here's the problem with SJW's. EVERYTHING offends or upsets them. Everything you say do and write sends them scurrying for their safe space and people have had enough. You cannot live in a world like that with these people.

You think I'm exaggerating? Ok here are a few examples:

When kingdom come deliverance came out they asked why no black people were in the game. Seriously?

When Doom Eternal came out they claimed it was making fun of illegal immigrants

Their "president de facto" Ms Anita Sarkeesian has single handedly destroyed TLOU2. and turned Naughty Dogs president into a cuck because he's so afraid of offending people that he compiled that dogs dinner of a game and then proceeded to call everyone homophobe and racist when they didnt like it.

Then we move on to my favourite. Science. They remove the male and female tags in CP2077. Why? "oh because we dont want to offend ot upset people who dont identify with either gender"....have you ever heard of such lunacy? gender is assigned at birth by your DNA. It cannot be changed. it cannot be altered YOU ARE STUCK WITH IT. If you dont want to acknowledge it thats fine but dont drag the rest of us kicking and screaming into your delusion.

If I strapped two car doors to my arms and demanded everyone refer to me as a BMW and told you that I was going to sue anyone if they didnt would you indulge me or laugh at me? How is this any different?

Why dont they do the same with gravity? How do we know gravity exists? Will they jump off a cliff to prove it doesnt? Its getting ridiculous and companies like CDPR are not helping.