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thelovebat: The issue is ... why it is you don't think people should play them.
I have never said that, and I have made that plain -- try researching my posting history. My issue with the Enhanced editions is that they are not a Baldur's Gate experience, period.

The rest of your wall of text... I almost fell asleep, so I stopped reading.
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thelovebat: The issue is ... why it is you don't think people should play them.
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Hickory: I have never said that, and I have made that plain -- try researching my posting history. My issue with the Enhanced editions is that they are not a Baldur's Gate experience, period.

The rest of your wall of text... I almost fell asleep, so I stopped reading.
How is it "not a Baldur's Gate experience?" It has the same story, the same characters, the same quests and subquests, etc. Do you not consider a modded version "a Baldur's Gate experience" too?
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Hickory: I have never said that, and I have made that plain -- try researching my posting history. My issue with the Enhanced editions is that they are not a Baldur's Gate experience, period.

The rest of your wall of text... I almost fell asleep, so I stopped reading.
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crumb24: How is it "not a Baldur's Gate experience?" It has the same story, the same characters, the same quests and subquests, etc. Do you not consider a modded version "a Baldur's Gate experience" too?
Where should I start? Um, how about the overpowered weapons and armour? How about the overpowered kits, spells, abilities, blah, blah, blah. And I cringe at the completely out of place character additions. It does not have 'the same' anything. It is an entirely different game -- have you actually played both?
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crumb24: How is it "not a Baldur's Gate experience?" It has the same story, the same characters, the same quests and subquests, etc. Do you not consider a modded version "a Baldur's Gate experience" too?
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Hickory: Where should I start? Um, how about the overpowered weapons and armour? How about the overpowered kits, spells, abilities, blah, blah, blah. And I cringe at the completely out of place character additions. It does not have 'the same' anything. It is an entirely different game -- have you actually played both?
I have played the Enhanced Edition, the original vanilla version, and the Tutu version of BG1. I've only played the Enhanced version to the beginning of Chapter 5 though. I finished both vanilla and Tutu of BG1. As for BG2, I played it to the final fight in hell with the vanilla, played through the final Bodhi fight in a modded version, and I'm currently playing BG2:EE and I am most of the way through Watcher's Keep headed to Suldanessellar right after. I've never played Throne of Bhaal yet. I tried doing BGT in the past, but I must have messed up the installation order or something, because it kept crashing as soon as it started the Shadows of Amn portion..

I've enjoyed all of the different versions of BG1, but I like having more options with character creation. I also prefer being able to have more than 20 arrows (etc.) per slot. Mainly due to those two factors, I prefer playing BG1 either modded or enhanced. BG2 doesn't have as many differences, but I enjoyed the NPC additions in BG2 (or at least Rasaad and Neera). I didn't play the NPC side-quests in BG1:EE, although I'm more curious about them after playing BG2EE. I just don't see enough differences between the different versions to basically call them separate games. But I am interested by your thoughts on it, so that's why I asked.
Its been over a month. OP, come back and tell us your experience please. I'd be interested to know what you thought as its one of my most favorite games ever. Reading this thread makes me want to start a new game again but I can never go back and experience it brand spanking new.
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crumb24: I just don't see enough differences between the different versions to basically call them separate games. But I am interested by your thoughts on it, so that's why I asked.
When it comes down to it, it's simply a matter of perception/taste/preference/call it what you like. I'm glad that you enjoy the Enhanced version, and I'm glad that you have a mind of your own in this respect -- if there's one thing that bugs me it's when people ask in forums things like 'what 'XYZ' should I choose', 'what are the must have...' There is no such thing, unless you're a sheep that follows what others say blindly. It's good to see you're not among them. :)

Remember, this thread started out by the poster asking what is the best way to get the original 1998 experience. Playing modded is not the way, and playing the Enhanced Edition is certainly not the way.
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thelovebat: The issue is ... why it is you don't think people should play them.
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Hickory: I have never said that, and I have made that plain -- try researching my posting history. My issue with the Enhanced editions is that they are not a Baldur's Gate experience, period.

The rest of your wall of text... I almost fell asleep, so I stopped reading.
You choose not to address my points as to why I think it's worth playing the Enhanced Edition even for someone new to the series. Is it because you can't address them or because you don't want to?
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Hickory: I have never said that, and I have made that plain -- try researching my posting history. My issue with the Enhanced editions is that they are not a Baldur's Gate experience, period.

The rest of your wall of text... I almost fell asleep, so I stopped reading.
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thelovebat: You choose not to address my points as to why I think it's worth playing the Enhanced Edition even for someone new to the series. Is it because you can't address them or because you don't want to?
I already stated that I stopped reading, and I meant it.
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thelovebat: You choose not to address my points as to why I think it's worth playing the Enhanced Edition even for someone new to the series. Is it because you can't address them or because you don't want to?
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Hickory: I already stated that I stopped reading, and I meant it.
So you didn't get to the part then where I point out a few things I wish the Enhanced Edition would have addressed. My post wasn't just a bunch of things I felt give the game merit for newcomers to play, I see things from both sides. If you want me to respect your opinion at least take the time to consider the things I mentioned or brought up. I don't mind debate or counterpoints. If you disagree with anything I said feel feel free to back up your reasoning.

My first Baldur's Gate game was Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance on the PS2 and that didn't effect my enjoyment of playing the original years later when GOG began selling it. And even after playing the original Baldur's Gate first that doesn't mean that I couldn't get more enjoyment out of the Enhanced Edition. I'm not saying someone like the OP has to go with what I recommend, just saying he should listen to both sides and decide for themselves since it's not like we're talking about George Lucas and Star Wars edits. No actual content was removed any more than any of the mods would have done.

You also have to understand that game balance is going to be different due to how proficiencies and classes now work, it was just inevitable that a few things would be different but that also doesn't mean anything is overpowered necessarily. Changes were made which makes different characters more specialized in how you may utilize them but doesn't change the core of how the NPCs are built. I mean for one you can no longer dual class into a specialist mage, something you used to be able to do with Imoen in the original. Strength requirements for some different equipment mean you have to worry more than just about weight limits like in the original. Some weapons which were more scarce but still viable at times in the original because of shared proficiencies had to be adjusted for the enhanced edition (like scimitars). The enhanced edition makes things more clear with how Bards and their bard song is handled and fixing the effects they have, and the kits make Bards much more appealing to play (otherwise you could just as easily get yourself a Bard NPC instead). The devs also added in a suit of armor fit especially for Bards to use that isn't overpowered and can't be obtained until around Chapter 5 or so. Essentially this armor provides an alternative for Bards since in the enhanced edition you can no longer switch out armor during combat like in the original. So now if you're a Bard and want the possibility of casting spells while wearing something (since Bards don't get to wear robes), at least now there's an alternative for those characters. Haste is now a viable spell that doesn't age your characters to oblivion (instead it just fatigues them faster, so now high constiution can pay off more than just hitpoints). I mean there were plenty of necessary changes, some Baldur's Gate specific and some others due to some of the shortcomings of 2nd Edition D&D. Heck, if they could make a Baldur's Gate game with 5th Edition D&D that would be great IMO since it seems better than the min/maxing style of 2nd Edition (at least for Baldur's Gate). A lot of stats in the original Baldur's Gate you didn't really get much benefit from until they were around 15. So anything you didn't plan on having that high was really a dump stat if you wanted. At least for the Enhanced Edition though now you have actual strength requirements, and making some things more clear with character creation (it's a lot easier for me to understand stuff like dual classing and multiclassing from the enhanced edition). Some things in relation to Mages and spellcasting are also made more clear.

You don't have to read my posts if you don't want to, but don't blow off my arguments and points as being invalid if you're not even going to bother reading them or addressing them. I mean heck Spears seem just an underpowered as they ever were in the original, so there's that. Some of the NPCs you can't get till later in the game are still gimped by the time you can get them. I don't see how things are overpowered, you'll still die just as much as in the original and saving often is still the way to go. And just like in the original, you'll eventually reach that point with your party when things start to snowball more in your favor and things are less frustrating for combat and progressing through areas. Some classes/kits seem much less useful than some others, like the Cleric/Thief still being a bad combination. Some classes/kits are more viable in the first game but maybe not quite as much in the 2nd game, and vice versa. It's definitely still Baldur's Gate, and someone who worked on the originals with Bioware back in the day is a part of the Beamdog/Overhaul staff and was fine with how they did things for the enhanced edition. My opinion is that the experience I've had with the enhanced edition is better than my experience with the aspects of the original, and it's simply more fun to play (and has more replayability with character creation).

I mean, let's look at another game. Lunar The Silver Star (and its sequel, Lunar Eternal Blue) were original released on the Sega CD. That, as one would have it, is the original experience. And no one doubts that these games were and are good. However, considering the improvements and things done on the PS1 re-releases of these games, would you still recommend people play the originals first? Not taking into account price and availability to play the originals.
Post edited February 11, 2015 by thelovebat
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Hickory: I already stated that I stopped reading, and I meant it.
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thelovebat: So you didn't get to the part then where I point out a few things I wish the Enhanced Edition would have addressed. My post wasn't just a bunch of things I felt give the game merit for newcomers to play, I see things from both sides. If you want me to respect your opinion at least take the time to consider the things I mentioned or brought up. I don't mind debate or counterpoints. If you disagree with anything I said feel feel free to back up your reasoning.

My first Baldur's Gate game was Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance on the PS2 and that didn't effect my enjoyment of playing the original years later when GOG began selling it. And even after playing the original Baldur's Gate first that doesn't mean that I couldn't get more enjoyment out of the Enhanced Edition. I'm not saying someone like the OP has to go with what I recommend, just saying he should listen to both sides and decide for themselves since it's not like we're talking about George Lucas and Star Wars edits. No actual content was removed any more than any of the mods would have done.

You also have to understand that game balance is going to be different due to
Stopped reading after the words, 'game balance '.
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thelovebat: If you want me to respect your opinion
Is that what you think? Is that REALLY what you think? Heck, you must have a very high opinion of *yourself*.

Needless to say, I stopped reading there.
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thelovebat: So you didn't get to the part then where I point out a few things I wish the Enhanced Edition would have addressed. My post wasn't just a bunch of things I felt give the game merit for newcomers to play, I see things from both sides. If you want me to respect your opinion at least take the time to consider the things I mentioned or brought up. I don't mind debate or counterpoints. If you disagree with anything I said feel feel free to back up your reasoning.

My first Baldur's Gate game was Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance on the PS2 and that didn't effect my enjoyment of playing the original years later when GOG began selling it. And even after playing the original Baldur's Gate first that doesn't mean that I couldn't get more enjoyment out of the Enhanced Edition. I'm not saying someone like the OP has to go with what I recommend, just saying he should listen to both sides and decide for themselves since it's not like we're talking about George Lucas and Star Wars edits. No actual content was removed any more than any of the mods would have done.

You also have to understand that game balance is going to be different due to
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HEF2011: Stopped reading after the words, 'game balance '.
What, you honestly didn't expect them to add a few weapons into the game after all the proficiencies became separate instead of lumped together? From what I remember playing the original Baldur's Gate Scimitars are pretty rare and aren't easily obtained, unless you want to make a go at Drizzt's equipment. Bastard swords weren't all that special except for one magical one you would be using at a location with specific monsters. And heck Jaheira in the Enhanced Edition starts with 2 points in Clubs, rendering those profiency points not so useful unless you know where to obtain magical clubs (which for a fairly new player, you'll have no idea and probably think dinky clubs are going to suck). It's hardly a case of trying to make a game easier, it's just trying to make adjustments so someone doesn't invest a bunch of points into a profiency that ultimately is gimped with little to no equipment to make use of it. That's why they have a disclaimer at character creation for Katanas as well, to help make sure your fighter/warrior isn't gimped by accident.

In the original, it was hard to go wrong with putting points into any of the melee weapon skills, because there was versatility in them (at least for the first game). Small Swords also including daggers with short swords was great for thieves, and other proficiencies were nice and versatile for other classes even if you couldn't dual wield. With a bunch of different proficiencies to choose from with the updated rules in the Enhanced Edition, they couldn't have everything exactly as it was in the original and expect all those proficiencies to be, in a sense, reasonably balanced.
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HEF2011: Stopped reading after the words, 'game balance '.
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thelovebat: What, you honestly didn't expect them to add a few weapons into the game after all the proficiencies became separate instead of lumped together? From what I remember playing the original Baldur's Gate Scimitars are pretty rare and aren't easily obtained, unless you want to make a go at Drizzt's equipment. Bastard swords weren't all that special except for one magical one you would be using at a location with specific monsters. And heck Jaheira in the Enhanced Edition starts with 2 points in Clubs, rendering those profiency points not so useful unless you know where to obtain magical clubs (which for a fairly new player, you'll have no idea and probably think dinky clubs are going to suck). It's hardly a case of trying to make a game easier, it's just trying to make adjustments so someone doesn't invest a bunch of points into a profiency that ultimately is gimped with little to no equipment to make use of it. That's why they have a disclaimer at character creation for Katanas as well, to help make sure your fighter/warrior isn't gimped by accident.

In the original, it was hard to go wrong with putting points into any of the melee weapon skills, because there was versatility in them (at least for the first game). Small Swords also including daggers with short swords was great for thieves, and other proficiencies were nice and versatile for other classes even if you couldn't dual wield. With a bunch of different proficiencies to choose from with the updated rules in the Enhanced Edition, they couldn't have everything exactly as it was in the original and expect all those proficiencies to be, in a sense, reasonably balanced.
What the Enhanced Edition should've offered was simply change the control scheme for compatibility with current devices & hardware instead of changing items around in the game for the expressed purpose of 'making the game easier'. At the very least, that's the impression I am getting from what I've read in the forums.
The original Baldur's Gate & its sequel was satisfactory in every way which did not need the interference of amateurs who really didn't understand what & why those design decisions were made.
If the Enhanced Edition had simply created a new control scheme for Smart Phones, Tablets and Touch Screen monitors that version of Baldur's Gate would've been well received...
...but when one rushes to the market place without doing the proper research, these are the kinds of problems rookies run into.
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HEF2011: Stopped reading after the words, 'game balance '.
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thelovebat: What, you honestly didn't expect them to add a few weapons into the game after all the proficiencies became separate instead of lumped together? From what I remember playing the original Baldur's Gate Scimitars are pretty rare and aren't easily obtained, unless you want to make a go at Drizzt's equipment. Bastard swords weren't all that special except for one magical one you would be using at a location with specific monsters. And heck Jaheira in the Enhanced Edition starts with 2 points in Clubs, rendering those profiency points not so useful unless you know where to obtain magical clubs (which for a fairly new player, you'll have no idea and probably think dinky clubs are going to suck). It's hardly a case of trying to make a game easier, it's just trying to make adjustments so someone doesn't invest a bunch of points into a profiency that ultimately is gimped with little to no equipment to make use of it. That's why they have a disclaimer at character creation for Katanas as well, to help make sure your fighter/warrior isn't gimped by accident.

In the original, it was hard to go wrong with putting points into any of the melee weapon skills, because there was versatility in them (at least for the first game). Small Swords also including daggers with short swords was great for thieves, and other proficiencies were nice and versatile for other classes even if you couldn't dual wield. With a bunch of different proficiencies to choose from with the updated rules in the Enhanced Edition, they couldn't have everything exactly as it was in the original and expect all those proficiencies to be, in a sense, reasonably balanced.
Everything you just said only emphasises differences between the two games. Everything you just said adds credence to the 'EE is not vanilla' argument. Contrary-wise, nothing you just said adds any validity to the argument that they are the same game. Far from it. They only share a part title and part plot line.
I thought I would chime in and add my opinion to the thread to balance it out...

Enhanced Edition Baldur's Gate is perfectly fine and plays really well. Yes, it is a modded version of the game, yes it does change some things, but it is still Baldur's Gate. And I consider it a superior version of the game. The greatest thing that EE does over vanilla is fixing the engine and the UI. The fact that the EE has a font size option built into the game makes reading the text for people like me (poor eye sight) so much easier. The engine is also optimized with multicore support which really helps smooth the game quite a bit. The added ability to change your resolution on the fly via zooming in and out is simply fantastic. It allows you to appreciate the game's art from a bird's eye view and a close view. Overall the game is just easier to approach in the EE. And it has full compatibility support for modern operating systems.

Saying that the EE is not Baldur's Gate is like saying that adding any mod to Baldur's Gate makes it not Baldur's Gate. And let us be honest here, Baldur's Gate is a platform for an experience, just like D&D is a platform for an experience. If you were to correct your statement it would be that EE is not the same experience that the original Baldur's Gate was for you. But it is still the same platform and thus the same game.