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EDITED: Ok forget it, I already know how the whole balance between the mage and technician paths works. And it looks to be fine! :)
Post edited January 01, 2021 by EchoOfMidgar
Keep in mind that originally, Arcanum only allowed you 64 CPs with which to build your character. So anyone who wanted to max out all eight tech colleges would've had to commit 56 points there already, which didn't leave much left over for things like combat, firearms, repair or persuasion skills.

So being able to buy tech manuals meant that you didn't have to commit all those points in areas that didn't really interest you, just to build that one interesting item which you found in a schematic somewhere.
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TwoHandedSword: Keep in mind that originally, Arcanum only allowed you 64 CPs with which to build your character. So anyone who wanted to max out all eight tech colleges would've had to commit 56 points there already, which didn't leave much left over for things like combat, firearms, repair or persuasion skills.

So being able to buy tech manuals meant that you didn't have to commit all those points in areas that didn't really interest you, just to build that one interesting item which you found in a schematic somewhere.
Well of course there is just 64 CPs, you have to be limited otherwise you can do everything and that's not good for an RPG. In a real RPG you choose a path. Arcanum allows to be basically everything everytime you play this game. Not a good RPG design.
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EchoOfMidgar: you have to be limited otherwise you can do everything and that's not good for an RPG. In a real RPG you choose a path. Arcanum allows to be basically everything everytime you play this game. Not a good RPG design.
It's a matter of perspective. You're limited at the start, and you grow more powerful as you go. That's the essence of an RPG to me; I want to be able to stand toe-to-toe with the BBEG, not necessarily face an uphill battle at the end. Your mileage may vary.

And it's a testament to Arcanum's lasting popularity that so many people still enjoy and recommend this game, and that there are still new mods available, 20 years later. It may not be what you're looking for in an RPG, and that's fine as well. It just means that the choices the devs made don't match up with your expectations, not that it's a bad game overall.
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EchoOfMidgar: you have to be limited otherwise you can do everything and that's not good for an RPG. In a real RPG you choose a path. Arcanum allows to be basically everything everytime you play this game. Not a good RPG design.
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TwoHandedSword: It's a matter of perspective. You're limited at the start, and you grow more powerful as you go. That's the essence of an RPG to me; I want to be able to stand toe-to-toe with the BBEG, not necessarily face an uphill battle at the end. Your mileage may vary.

And it's a testament to Arcanum's lasting popularity that so many people still enjoy and recommend this game, and that there are still new mods available, 20 years later. It may not be what you're looking for in an RPG, and that's fine as well. It just means that the choices the devs made don't match up with your expectations, not that it's a bad game overall.
Let me ask you this way. When you are a 100% mage, can you create everything that a 100% technician can create?
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EchoOfMidgar: Let me ask you this way. When you are a 100% mage, can you create everything that a 100% technician can create?
The simple answer is that I can do anything a 100% TA can do, just in a different way.

The slightly more complicated one is that anyone can do a found schematic, if one can scrounge up the components. So the only thing I wouldn't have direct access to are the learned ones; but many of them can be bought, and I can find find 4 followers who can themselves eventually craft up to level 4 in two each out of the eight disciplines. And you can still find some of the higher-level items (e.g. eye gear, elephant gun, etc.) if you know where to look.
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EchoOfMidgar: Let me ask you this way. When you are a 100% mage, can you create everything that a 100% technician can create?
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TwoHandedSword: The simple answer is that I can do anything a 100% TA can do, just in a different way.

The slightly more complicated one is that anyone can do a found schematic, if one can scrounge up the components. So the only thing I wouldn't have direct access to are the learned ones; but many of them can be bought, and I can find find 4 followers who can themselves eventually craft up to level 4 in two each out of the eight disciplines. And you can still find some of the higher-level items (e.g. eye gear, elephant gun, etc.) if you know where to look.
Hm so it is too open-ended for an RPG. I think it would be better if there were bigger differencies between mages and technicians. So according to you words, basically you can find and use high-tech stuff even as a 100% mage. So then I dont quite understand the main theme which Arcanum works with - magick vs technology and technology vs magick.
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EchoOfMidgar: you can find and use high-tech stuff even as a 100% mage
Well, you can find or make high-tech stuff, as a mage, but then all you can do is either sell it or give to one of your followers that has Technical Aptitude, because:
1. if it should give you stat bonuses, resistances, etc. - it won't do that,
2. the bigger the difference between your MA and item's TA, the bigger is the chance to critically fail,
3. and, finally, some items just won't work at all.

It works the same way for magickal items and tech-oriented character, with an exception of point 2.
Post edited January 08, 2021 by Kerebron
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Kerebron: Well, you can find or make high-tech stuff, as a mage, but then all you can do is either sell it or give to one of your followers that has Technical Aptitude, because:
1. if it should give you stat bonuses, resistances, etc. - it won't do that,
2. the bigger the difference between your MA and item's TA, the bigger is the chance to critically fail,
3. and, finally, some items just won't work at all.

It works the same way for magickal items and tech-oriented character, with an exception of point 2.
The one exception seems to be consumables. I've used fatigue restorers and cure-alls, even as a mage; and there's one exclusive late-game stat-boosting compound that also always works, even when I have 100% MA.
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EchoOfMidgar: you can find and use high-tech stuff even as a 100% mage
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Kerebron: Well, you can find or make high-tech stuff, as a mage, but then all you can do is either sell it or give to one of your followers that has Technical Aptitude, because:
1. if it should give you stat bonuses, resistances, etc. - it won't do that,
2. the bigger the difference between your MA and item's TA, the bigger is the chance to critically fail,
3. and, finally, some items just won't work at all.

It works the same way for magickal items and tech-oriented character, with an exception of point 2.
Ah so I understand :) Thanks :) Been ever thinking about what if there were even more strict differencies between mages and technicians?
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EchoOfMidgar: Been ever thinking about what if there were even more strict differencies between mages and technicians?
If you want to play an orthodox mage or technician, you can use Technophobia and Magick Allergy backgrounds, respectively. I find them too strict, but YMMV.
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EchoOfMidgar: Been ever thinking about what if there were even more strict differencies between mages and technicians?
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Kerebron: If you want to play an orthodox mage or technician, you can use Technophobia and Magick Allergy backgrounds, respectively. I find them too strict, but YMMV.
Thanks, it seems you have played this game many times. How do you rate it actually? :)
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EchoOfMidgar: it seems you have played this game many times.
Hundreds. But I finished it just a couple of times. :)

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EchoOfMidgar: How do you rate it actually?
One of the best worst games. :P
Let me explain. It has a lot of flaws, even with UAP installed, but I consider it much better as a whole, than a sum of its parts. I like sandbox games, and Arcanum is one of the best in this category (better than Fallouts, for example). I like the setting, graphics and the soundtrack is my all-time favourite (which tell something, as I usually turn music off in games - this is one of very few exceptions). And it is quite moddable, if you can't live with some of its limitations and quirks or want something more suited to your liking.
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EchoOfMidgar: it seems you have played this game many times.
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Kerebron: Hundreds. But I finished it just a couple of times. :)

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EchoOfMidgar: How do you rate it actually?
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Kerebron: One of the best worst games. :P
Let me explain. It has a lot of flaws, even with UAP installed, but I consider it much better as a whole, than a sum of its parts. I like sandbox games, and Arcanum is one of the best in this category (better than Fallouts, for example). I like the setting, graphics and the soundtrack is my all-time favourite (which tell something, as I usually turn music off in games - this is one of very few exceptions). And it is quite moddable, if you can't live with some of its limitations and quirks or want something more suited to your liking.
What limitations do you have on mind?
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EchoOfMidgar: What limitations do you have on mind?
For example, things like level, number of followers and racial statistics caps. Automatic picking up of items by followers/NPCs was extremely annoying, so I got rid of that, too.
All these things require hex editing of the main executable file.