So, I opened a chest with Unlocking Cantrip and some random person went hostile. This was followed by every character I came across likewise going hostile. My question is two fold:

1.) How do you use Unlocking Cantrip to rob chests without the entire town trying to murder you?

2.) If the entire town does try to murder you- what can be done to pacify them?

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

1) If people don't notice you thieving, they don't go hostile. People have to not be in the room, facing your direction, or close enough to hear your actions, etc.

The good example of this is the chest in the Willoughsby house in Tarant. It's got 3600g, and you can go through the double doors to get to it, close them behind you, and literally smash it with weapons without anyone noticing.

2) I would always load if I was noticed and people went hostile, so I can't remember any solutions to crime hostility. Try escaping the area and traveling away and then back after a few days have passed.

If you are caught for certain things enough times, guards of that city will try to kill you on sight forever.

Also note that if you kill someone and then loiter for 2 full days, the evidence will be completely gone. You can also drag corpses by getting adjacent to them and alt clicking on it.

You'd think the developers would have come up with a solution to this issue given that it plagued the first two Fallout games!

I was trying to rob the two chests in the bank in Shrouded Hills and had already murdered the two inhabitants as they went hostile- so that could have been a contributing factor. The non player character that began the murder spree was, I believe, on the north side of the bank past a WALL! Does that not factor in to my being detected? I think I read somewhere that if I can distance myself from the object being unlocked this can be helpful? I'd really rather not put points into Lockpicking at this early stage. . .

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

You can rob those chests with the Unlocking Cantrip. You need to time it properly though to avoid the patrolling guard from hearing you unlock the chests through the wall. Which is total BS by the way. There wasn't that much in them on my play-through.

Are you doing it for yourself, or on behalf of the guy in the Shrouded Hills inn?

If you're planning to invest in lockpicking, you'll also need a set of lockpicks (or eventually, an auto skeleton key). The best place to pick up one of those is via the shopkeeper at the very start of the game; without them, the skill is as useless as a gun without bullets. Or you could try hanging out in the bank until past closing time, and wait for everyone to go to bed. (They don't actually kick you out; or you could use the Sleep Till Evening, plus a few hours, just to be sure.) I don't know how well it'll work, having never done this with just the spell.

1.) The non player character in the bank was asleep.

2.) I had the quest to rob the bank and used the spell on the two adjoining chests.

3.) A non player character outside of the bank ratted on me. . .

Edit

4.) I noticed there was a spell that could conjure the spirit of a dead non player character. How useful is this with regards to getting & completing quests in towns that want you dead?

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

The main quest, almost all of the time*. Other quests are hit and miss: for instance, Doc Roberts won't recruit you to protect the bank from the (other) bank robbers if he's been killed himself.

*Or at least there's still some way to advance the plot: if you kill Bates, for instance, you'll find what you need if you search the nearby furniture.

I've pretty much decided I'm not going to try thievery without a dedicated thief type character. The fact that you rob one chest and have to murder an entire town to proceed is just horribly bad design. It was the same with the first two Fallout games. Why they never attempted an approach like The Elder Scrolls games where there's an actual criminal justice system is beyond me.

I do, however, want to thank all of you for the responses.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

I understand your frustration, but I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. For one thing, the above indicates that your actions have repercussions, which is usually considered an element of good game design. For another, you don't have to kill everyone in town; you can simply get past the bridge thieves (by hook or by crook) and then leave the place behind; the main quest never brings you back there.

The only thing you really need to know is where to head next; you could meta your way through that with just about any walkthrough, or you could see whether the junk dealer (or his reanimated corpse) will still cooperate with you, despite your being public enemy number one right now.

Part of the beauty of this game is its flexibility: you could have a pure thief, a mage-thief, a tech thief, a warrior thief, or even a diplomat-thief con artist. Or some combination of the above. Talk about replay value!

Last but not least, while I'm well aware that not everyone is a fan of using the quicksave and/or creating restore points (some even call this "save scumming") with this game it gives you the chance to try out different options, without having to go all the way back to the crash site if things head south.

Good luck.

I'm all for actions having consequences. As you say that is a mark of good game design. But as I said when an entire town goes psycho killer on you because you insulted the sheriff as happened with me- that's bad design. The fact that this same element has carried over from the Fallout series is, in my opinion, one of the endemic problems that ultimately destroyed Troika Games.

As I said had this happened in an Elder Scrolls game I would be given far more options in dealing with the situation. In The Elder Scrolls II - Daggerfall there were actual trials, of a sort. In The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion I could chose to pay a fine, be arrested or resist arrest. The lack of options in this game is simply poor design. If I insult someone and they attack me- fine, but the whole town? Seriously? I would actually be fine with the town trying to kill me if there was an alternative to killing them or bypassing them.

Lastly, I had the same problem with Arcanum Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura that I had with Fallout 2. You kill someone in town and no guards go hostile. You come back later having saved, thinking everything is fine, and everyone is hostile.

I do appreciate your input- you seem to be a good contributer to the forum!

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

It was at night and I was actually referring to a guard walking around outside. You simply have to time the spell properly. I have done this with both chests at night. I unlocked the one and looted it. Then unlocked the next after there was no one near by.

Right, but I don't think it's going to be viable over the long run. For example the guy who gives you the quest to sabotage the steam engine sleeps right next to a chest. And you can't him kill him because he offers a second quest! Perhaps there's a way to get far enough away and cast the spell?

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

No, of course not. It's designed to not replace the pick locks skill.

Unlocking Cantrip
Minimum Level: 1
Resisted by: n/a
Effect: the target is unlocked (but not opened) if your Magical Aptitude
exceeds the lock’s difficulty rating. Obviously, this spell is only effective on
locked doors and chests. Also, unlike the Pick Locks skill, this spell is very
loud and attracts the attention (and perhaps hostility) of nearby creatures.

Yep, that was my point.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz