It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
OK, been playing this game for awhile now and thought I had a good grasp of the mechanics, but apparently not. In many of the maps where I play vs Emperor CPU the AI just keeps throwing away units at me but is still able to out-produce me, despite having equal amounts and hexes of cities!

This has me wondering; is it best to actually zerg the opponent like this? Coming from strategy games like Heroes and StarCraft, I always hold on to my units for as long as possible and then replace them with higher level troops when/if I do lose them.

What is the best way to handle upkeep? Also, when is the best time to upgrade? Seems like the AI will upgrade ASAP while I focus on having a solid defense/offense first but this occasionally makes me fall behind on unit levels.

Is there any general recommended strategy for winning?
This question / problem has been solved by Bookwyrm627image
The AI has silly amounts of bonuses at higher difficulty levels. Bonus gold income, bonus mana income, and bonus experience-for-existing on all of their heroes. You're never going to really be fighting on even terms against the highest difficulty AI. It is still rock stupid, but now backed by quite the free money to throw at problems. You're going to have to fight a lot smarter, and don't mess around too much with defenses; you need to go out and conquer, or you'll eventually be crushed by sheer resources.

Don't try to garrison all of your cities. The AI isn't bright enough to do stealth type attacks, so get good map vision and you'll see attacks coming. Garrisons cost money while not providing anything strategically if the city isn't under direct threat (for example, it is on the front line). All those garrisons guarding cities behind your lines could be up front fighting the war and contesting/claiming territory.

The AI always knows where all of your units are, so concealment is a wasted ability against it. Don't bother with any strategy that relies on concealment (or the fog of war) keeping your units hidden from the AI. These are great tools against other players, but not the AI.

Assuming you're playing the base game, then the unit strategy is basically "all archers, all the time". You can throw in a few higher level units that are durable to soak up enemy attacks in auto combat (the occasional Titan for High Men, for example), maybe the occasional healer to patch up wounded survivors (there probably won't be many). You'll need siege of some sort as well, which basically means elephants if you can get them or rams if you can't. Time is one of your resources, along side gold and mana; a city that produces a Titan could have produced something like 16 archers considering just the upgrade time, installation time, and production of the first Titan. That doesn't even get into the gold cost of all those upgrades, and it doesn't get into the fact that you'll have archers streaming out every turn instead of only seeing your first unit 16 turns later.

Try to get levels for your heroes, which means giving them the killing blow. Wall Climbing should be the very first thing you get on every hero, costing only 5 skill points. Defense is cheap and good, so get it high early, add a few points of attack to help accuracy, and max defense and attack. Extra damage is very nice, but kind of expensive. A few extra hp can help shield against lucky hits from enemy units with either high attack or (especially) high damage.

If you find yourself with a T4 city that isn't under threat and you have plenty of extra gold, then you can consider some of the better upper level units. A fast moving flyer (eagle/wyvern rider) may be able to pick off unguarded possessions from the enemy, then hide on mountains or water to prevent retaliation. Air Galleys are really good, being a ranged flyer with decent durability. Possibly some of the fast brusier type units, like a Karagh. A big stack of doom priests could be good for converting units, if the race relations work out to allow you to keep them.
avatar
Bookwyrm627: The AI has silly amounts of bonuses at higher difficulty levels. Bonus gold income, bonus mana income, and bonus experience-for-existing on all of their heroes. You're never going to really be fighting on even terms against the highest difficulty AI. It is still rock stupid, but now backed by quite the free money to throw at problems. You're going to have to fight a lot smarter, and don't mess around too much with defenses; you need to go out and conquer, or you'll eventually be crushed by sheer resources.

Don't try to garrison all of your cities. The AI isn't bright enough to do stealth type attacks, so get good map vision and you'll see attacks coming. Garrisons cost money while not providing anything strategically if the city isn't under direct threat (for example, it is on the front line). All those garrisons guarding cities behind your lines could be up front fighting the war and contesting/claiming territory.

The AI always knows where all of your units are, so concealment is a wasted ability against it. Don't bother with any strategy that relies on concealment (or the fog of war) keeping your units hidden from the AI. These are great tools against other players, but not the AI.

Assuming you're playing the base game, then the unit strategy is basically "all archers, all the time". You can throw in a few higher level units that are durable to soak up enemy attacks in auto combat (the occasional Titan for High Men, for example), maybe the occasional healer to patch up wounded survivors (there probably won't be many). You'll need siege of some sort as well, which basically means elephants if you can get them or rams if you can't. Time is one of your resources, along side gold and mana; a city that produces a Titan could have produced something like 16 archers considering just the upgrade time, installation time, and production of the first Titan. That doesn't even get into the gold cost of all those upgrades, and it doesn't get into the fact that you'll have archers streaming out every turn instead of only seeing your first unit 16 turns later.

Try to get levels for your heroes, which means giving them the killing blow. Wall Climbing should be the very first thing you get on every hero, costing only 5 skill points. Defense is cheap and good, so get it high early, add a few points of attack to help accuracy, and max defense and attack. Extra damage is very nice, but kind of expensive. A few extra hp can help shield against lucky hits from enemy units with either high attack or (especially) high damage.

If you find yourself with a T4 city that isn't under threat and you have plenty of extra gold, then you can consider some of the better upper level units. A fast moving flyer (eagle/wyvern rider) may be able to pick off unguarded possessions from the enemy, then hide on mountains or water to prevent retaliation. Air Galleys are really good, being a ranged flyer with decent durability. Possibly some of the fast brusier type units, like a Karagh. A big stack of doom priests could be good for converting units, if the race relations work out to allow you to keep them.
Hmm, I've used concealment with some success; yes, the AI knows you are there, but it can't actively search for your units because it doesn't seem to know exacly where you are (or atleast pretends that it doesn't). Still, seems the AI always keeps garrisons in all of it's cities - atleast if it can. Flyers seem to be generally alot better because it often fails to counter them with archers/ballistas. In all honesty, I usually fail with my concealed units because I can't keep them concealed...they move so slowly in forests so I think generally fliers are just better.

I didn't know about the gold and production rate bonus! Are these documented somewhere?

Yeah I discovered the cheesiness of archers in my last game... Since the enemy insisted on producing fliers or heavely armored units like Cavaliers, I had no choice but to go for archers and Shredder Bolts. Anything else just got killed and I was under constant siege so I couldn't afford to upgrade. I was ready to throw in the towel and do a final "Blaze of Glory"-push with my archers and shredders... who ended up doing alot more damage and capturing farm more cities than I expected. Oh well.

I've heard archers are really good so I've deliberately tried to avoid going "all archers", but this time I had no choice. Would be nice to be able to alter some of those game mechanics myself - the mods you linked me in another post changed too much for my liking.

I roleplay with my heroes (for fun and for balance reasons) so if I'm playing a tank-character he doesn't get wall-climbing. It makes no sense for Doktok the Fat to climb walls - he is too... large. :D But it's good advice, thanks!

Thanks for the advice, I have a better understanding of the mechanics now!

EDIT

...and again I ask questions first and look for answers afterwards.. >< I actually found a pretty detailed guide on how to use HxD to mod the game and it looks (atleast) easier than I thought to make modifications to the game! Fingers crossed it will allow me to change the (according to myself atleast) few things that seperate this game from being amazing to perfect! I may even make a mod of my own if inspiration strikes.

Btw, if you still play the game (or anyone else here on GoG), send me a PM if you are interested in doing some multiplayer! Marking this as solved.

Regards, N
Post edited September 27, 2023 by NocturneN
avatar
Bookwyrm627: The AI always knows where all of your units are, so concealment is a wasted ability against it. Don't bother with any strategy that relies on concealment (or the fog of war) keeping your units hidden from the AI. These are great tools against other players, but not the AI.
That's what I used to assume, until I tested it.
Concealment does indeed work against the AI.
Attachments:
135.png (128 Kb)
Post edited September 27, 2023 by PetrusOctavianus
avatar
NocturneN: Hmm, I've used concealment with some success; yes, the AI knows you are there, but it can't actively search for your units because it doesn't seem to know exacly where you are (or atleast pretends that it doesn't). Still, seems the AI always keeps garrisons in all of it's cities - atleast if it can. Flyers seem to be generally alot better because it often fails to counter them with archers/ballistas. In all honesty, I usually fail with my concealed units because I can't keep them concealed...they move so slowly in forests so I think generally fliers are just better.
I think I had a concealed unit once off to the side of a pathway, and the AI kept bypassing it until it finally sent something to just go kill it (no detection involved). I'm not sure it is "concealment works" so much as "AI stupid". I think it was on the map where "You've been watching, and your assassins are well placed to kill enemy leaders!" is (paraphrased) in the description? It's been too many years, so I may be misremembering.

Flyers are great for covering distance and hitting undefended or lightly defended targets. Been a while since I've played vanilla, but iirc many of the flyers are not very durable so they don't stand up well to heavier fighting.
avatar
NocturneN: I didn't know about the gold and production rate bonus! Are these documented somewhere?
The AI doesn't get a production bonus (they can't produce units any faster than you can), they just get a gold bonus so all their cities can be producing all the time and unit maintenance is not a concern. They also get a mana bonus, so they don't have to manage mana the way you do, they can just keep casting (if they decide to); they are still restricted in how many casting points per turn a hero has. They do get an XP-per-turn bonus though, so they'll out level you if you don't put some focus on leveling your heroes/leader and if you don't keep moving.
avatar
NocturneN: I've heard archers are really good so I've deliberately tried to avoid going "all archers", but this time I had no choice. Would be nice to be able to alter some of those game mechanics myself - the mods you linked me in another post changed too much for my liking.
I gather there is quite a bit of learning and work involved in modding the game, so good luck if you go that route.
avatar
NocturneN: Thanks for the advice, I have a better understanding of the mechanics now!
You're quite welcome. Enjoy!
avatar
NocturneN: Btw, if you still play the game (or anyone else here on GoG), send me a PM if you are interested in doing some multiplayer! Marking this as solved.
I know of one AoW1 discord server where several people played games back while I was part of it. They primarily used the Ziggurat mod or Evolved mod though; I don't know how much interest there would be in playing vanilla.

If you're interested, I can request an invite link for you.
avatar
Bookwyrm627: The AI always knows where all of your units are, so concealment is a wasted ability against it. Don't bother with any strategy that relies on concealment (or the fog of war) keeping your units hidden from the AI. These are great tools against other players, but not the AI.
avatar
PetrusOctavianus: That's what I used to assume, until I tested it.
Concealment does indeed work against the AI.
Now you've got me curious.

How did you test it? My own experience implies "AI Stupid" not "AI respects concealment", but maybe I've misinterpreted.
Post edited September 28, 2023 by Bookwyrm627
I don't recall how I first tested it, but I tested it again to double check, by sending a hero with an Underground Concealment item two squares from some Independents. With the item worn they didn't move. Without the item worn they attacked.