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Hickory: No. I, unlike you, have accused nobody of lies... yet. My position is that YOU accused GOG of falsehoods in their marketing, and I quote:
So are you saying these people are telling the truth?

Kezardin

"The 1.69 critical rebuild patch usually fixes this - note it's 325 mb ::

http://nwn.bioware.com/support/patch_english_hotu.html"

xtkbilly

"There is always a post about this at least once a week, despite it having been answered the same exact way at least 5 times.

Is it possible to get a topic stickied?"

Mattoco

"Looks can be deceiving. Though the executable reflects v1.69, there are about 400MB worth of missing game files that the Critical Rebuild is needed in order to obtain. Why these game files were missing is unknown (I never heard back on a support e-mail I sent them detailing the specifics)."

Pstemarie

"Lastly, you MUST run the 1.69 Critical Rebuild. Many of the GOG editions of Diamond are not correctly patched to 1.69.

Furthermore, any search of these forums using the term "GOG" will yield numerous results that state that the GOG edition is incorrectly patched on MOST downloads and that users should apply the 1.69 Critical Rebuild."

Shadooow

"It isn't a day someone didn't have an issue with NWN caused by bugged installation from GOG or other sources..."

HipMaestro

"And, btw, the v1.69 Critical Rebuild DOES improve performance for GoG's Diamond version on many systems where only the GoG Diamond patch was applied. Search the Tech Support topics and you will find that to be true."

So, are they telling the truth or are they lying? Which is it?

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Catrhis: Denying the problem won't make it go away, i had it myself. Now we can discuss about a problem old as this game original release, or we can agree that someone need the patch.
Exactly. I don't get why Hickory is so upset about it. It's not a big deal.

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urknighterrant: Unless your GoG install is incomplete or damaged it won't do you any good.
It also doesn't hurt anything. And as the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Taking less than 5 minutes to ensure that there's no problem with the game seems worth it. Maybe your game would be fine anyway -- it's just a precaution. Not like it takes hours or something.

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urknighterrant: Also... just to be clear... while most people call the 1.69 critical rebuild "the patch" it is not, strictly speaking, a "patch" at all.
True. But, like you said, it has the effect of patching your game to 1.69 (regardless of what it was) in addition to fixing anything corrupted.
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MagicalMaster: <Desperate attempts to cover up lies dismissed.>
Give it up. You've been exposed. Don't continue to make a damn fool of yourself... or do.
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Hickory: Give it up. You've been exposed. Don't continue to make a damn fool of yourself... or do.
Are you that unwilling to answer a simple question? Are they telling the truth or lying?
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MagicalMaster: Are you that unwilling to answer a simple question?
I don't need to; I've made my position clear. Are you that unwilling to apologise to GOG for calling them liars?
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Hickory: I don't need to; I've made my position clear.
Well, since you agree with those people I quoted, that means I was correct when I said " GoG games aren't always "patched" like they claim, NWN has had problems with GoG claiming to have patched it to 1.69 in the past". Good to have you confirm it!

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Hickory: Are you that unwilling to apologise to GOG for calling them liars?
Why would I need to apologize for telling the truth?

And, to repeat myself from earlier....

"Not saying it was malicious, just mistaken."

Aka, I'm saying they were wrong, not lying. That distinction seems to be lost on you.

Oh, another quote from earlier:

"Which is irresponsible: suggesting fixes that have worked in the past because GoG has unfortunately messed up or burying your head in the sand and claiming GoG is perfect?

They're human. They've messed up. They still provide a good service. Just accept that."

You're completely fixated on the (incorrect) idea that I'm saying GOG is a group of lying scumbags or something...rather than me simply saying that they were wrong in the past. They made a mistake. That's it.
Post edited January 27, 2015 by MagicalMaster
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MagicalMaster: Why would I need to apologize for telling the truth?
Riiiiight...

I'm saying they were wrong, not lying
Oh, the irony!

... I'm saying GOG is a group of lying scumbags
That's exactly what you are saying, but you haven't got the decency to admit it, even while still grasping at dubious forum hearsay for your 'evidence'. Like I've said before, you don't fool anybody with your bullshit.
MagicalMaster, Please just stop. You are so wrong about pretty much everything. It just hurts watching you try to defend a fundamentally indefensible position.
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Hickory: Like I've said before, you don't fool anybody with your bullshit.
I've tried to be reasonable and rational with you, Hickory, but you're just not capable of listening. Goodbye.

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urknighterrant: It just hurts watching you try to defend a fundamentally indefensible position.
I've linked to at least 10 threads on the issue on both this site and the main one. I've shown where people most familiar with the technical aspects of the game have said exactly what I've said.

I've provided evidence for my position -- what reason(s) do you have to believe all of that evidence is wrong?
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MagicalMaster: I've provided evidence for my position
No, you haven't. All you have provided is links to personal opinions from disgruntled forum posters. Your position, as you see it, is a lie... another one.
Do you REALLY want me to do this? Do you REALLY want me to showcase your complete lack of knowledge in a public forum?
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urknighterrant: Do you REALLY want me to do this? Do you REALLY want me to showcase your complete lack of knowledge in a public forum?
Go for it.

Both on this forum and the official forums I've constantly seen people annoyed with issues from the GoG version of NWN over the last few years. A good chunk of these issues were fixed when they installed the 1.69 critical rebuild. Others were related to where GoG installed NWN apparently. Others had absolutely nothing to do with GoG and instead were due to graphics card issues or whatever.

Let's look at this thread in particular (can look at others, but given that this is a GoG thread it may been seen as more palatable):

http://www.gog.com/forum/neverwinter_nights_series/silver_skin_characters_cannot_start_game

The original poster with the problem said the critical rebuild fixed the issue they had and marked it as the solution.

Another person said

"There is always a post about this at least once a week, despite it having been answered the same exact way at least 5 times.

Is it possible to get a topic stickied?"

Another person in that thread claimed

"Looks can be deceiving. Though the executable reflects v1.69, there are about 400MB worth of missing game files that the Critical Rebuild is needed in order to obtain. Why these game files were missing is unknown (I never heard back on a support e-mail I sent them detailing the specifics)."

And in an entirely different thread someone said "The 1st run that GOG released had a corrupt patch file. The XP3 BIF was about 1/3 the size it should be."

Now maybe those people are all wrong. But I've seen a lot of people more knowledgeable than me about the inner guts of the game (I mainly know scripting and mechanics, not custom content or patches) agreeing with and repeating those sorts of statements, which has led me to believe they were correct.

If you have reason to believe the GoG versions of the game have always been fully and completely patched (contrary to what all those people have claimed), please provide that information. If you can, I will shout it from the rooftops both here and on the official forums anytime this topic comes up.

Keep in mind I have *never* claimed that the current download is definitely broken/wrong. My original statement was:

"Run the critical rebuild anyway. GoG games aren't always "patched" like they claim, NWN has had problems with GoG claiming to have patched it to 1.69 in the past, and worst case it doesn't hurt anything."

Remember that 1.69 was released in 2008 -- thus the GoG version of NWN in 2010 should have been patched to 1.69 (and 2010 is when that thread is from). And all signs point to issues with the download at that time.

Hence why I recommended people use the 1.69 critical rebuild as a precaution. Perhaps it doesn't even help 98% of people. But if taking 3 minutes to run the critical rebuild saves you a few hours of frustration of having problems with your game and having to go to the forums to figure out a fix, you're better off on average.
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MagicalMaster: ... I've constantly seen people annoyed
...
Another person said
...
Another person in that thread claimed
...
And in an entirely different thread someone said
...
Now maybe those people are all wrong.
...
... which has led me to believe they were correct.
...
My original statement was:
GoG games aren't always "patched" like they claim,
So now you're squirming and trying to escape the pit you've dug for yourself. You even seem to believe the drivel you are spouting. Are you really that dense?
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urknighterrant: Do you REALLY want me to do this? Do you REALLY want me to showcase your complete lack of knowledge in a public forum?
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MagicalMaster: Go for it.

...

Let's look at this thread in particular (can look at others, but given that this is a GoG thread it may been seen as more palatable):

http://www.gog.com/forum/neverwinter_nights_series/silver_skin_characters_cannot_start_game

The original poster with the problem said the critical rebuild fixed the issue they had and marked it as the solution.

...
OK, Fine. Make it easy for me.

I have no intention of taking your entire position apart point for point because I have... well... a life... and it would take DAYS to explain it all to you, so lets just take a closer look at this particular link. This is like the third time you've cited it and it really does stand tall as a monument to the epic scope of your wrongness.

Perhaps I should preface this with some accreditation. You have probably never heard of me, but my community name is "Urk". I am known in the CC community as a minor dabbler. I am not a hall of famer or anything like that. In fact that's not even the kind of work I do. I don't do the kind of work that gets mass downloads. I do the kind of small but helpful jobs that those guys use. For example... back when the CCP was a thing I fixed several of their broken or inadequate textures with "Urk's CCP reskins". All were adopted into the CCP and most have survived to be incorporated into the CEP since they absorbed that project. I mention this, of course, because in order to do this I actually had to learn how the graphics worked in-game which bears directly on the "silver skins" issue .

Other contributions of Note are "Urk's DM tools" some of which I believe have been merged into the last version of DMFI, "Urk's Random NPC conversations" which have been adopted by a number of mod builders and PWs, "Urks 1.69 Horse Stable" which has been adopted by a number of builders (notably including Lord of Worms' "Arbor Falls" PW).

I may not be the best of the best.... those folks mostly still hang out on the Bioware forums... but I'm one of the most knowledgeable people you are likely to find frequenting the GoG boards.

Now... Silver skins...

This is kinda lost knowledge since the old bio forums went off-line, so most people don't know this, but when Bio released NWN every creature model had TWO skins. One was a basic texture, and the other had a much higher resolution. I don't remember the exact formats (I stopped doing reskins almost a decade ago) but I'm pretty sure the basic textures were rendered in .PNG and the high rez textures in .TGA.

When you start up NWN it checks your graphics card to see if it's powerful enough to support it's high rez textures. The problem is that while every graphics card currently in production is powerful enough to support these skins, some (for a variety of reasons) can't actually display them. The result is a glitch. When a creature actually spawns it appears to be pure white or silver because the graphics card is not able to display the texture that the game is trying to use. It has NOTHING to with GoG or the way the game is "patched". It's just the way the game works in conjunction with some modern graphics cards. You would have exactly the same problem if you had purchased the game on disc.

The opposite problem has also been known to occur when early custom content creators uploaded creatures that only had high rez textures. It didn't take us long to figure out that this was a bad idea, though.

Anyway...

When the critical rebuild was first created Bioware made a conscious decision to keep the file size small by not including the high resolution textures (they're fricken' huge compared to the basic skins). Because it replaces all the games critical files the end result is that the critical rebuild strips the high resolution skins out of the game completely. This means that after a critical rebuild the game is forced to display the basic skins regardless of your rigs native graphic card. This just happened to fix the "white skins" problem when it began appearing with newer graphics cards. White skins became silver when even newer cards began handling lighting differently.

Keep this in mind next time you say running the critical rebuild "doesn't hurt anything" because some players might consider stripping the high rez creature skins out of the game to be "hurting something". This is why I recommend only running the critical rebuild if you need to.

GoG is a retro gaming site. Getting old games to run on newer machines is always problematic. GoG does an excellent job making these games compatible with modern machines, but they cannot be reasonably expected to test their games on every possible graphics card and hardware configuration. Some people are not cut out for overcoming the issues of retro gaming, and those people can get pretty loud on the forums. But just because the games don't run perfectly right out of the box on every machine does not mean GoG made a mistake or did anything wrong. They have been as responsive as humanly possible with compatibility issues, and I for one would rather thank them for their reasonable efforts in keeping these games alive rather than unreasonably and unfairly criticize them for perceived "failures".
Post edited January 28, 2015 by urknighterrant
@Urknighterrant

Small nitpick - NWN uses TGA textures and DDS textures.

When Bioware made their last update (1.69) they did not include TGA textures for most of the new appearances. They did this because it more than halved the file sizes for updating and many folks had computers better able to digest DDS textures than when the game had been originally released. Some folks with older computers/graphics cards did have issues with the lack of TGA support, but Community Members made several TGA conversions as an override for those needing them.

@Urknighterrant, Hickory, jjglvz and any other "disbelievers"

If you ONLY play the Original Campaigns and Premium Modules, there's a good chance that the GOG version won't need to have the critical rebuild done.

If however, you download and play modules made post 1.69 or join most PWs, you definitely need to do the critical rebuild. Otherwise, sooner or later, you'll experience graphics glitches or even unexplained lock ups or game crashes. As someone who hosts their own PW and assists a half dozen others with hak compiling, scripting and technical assistance, I can assure you that its a rare, rare, rare week that passes when I don't have a case of a player having issues playing with a GOG installation that the 1.69 Critical Rebuild has not fixed.

I actually wondered if GOG had resolved this recently as I was helping out a trio of folks that got the GOG version in the past month or two and hadn't had any issues. It turns out, as of just the other night, they simply didn't realize they were having issues that could be easily fixed with the rebuild. They all just assumed that NWN was being finicky due to it the game's age and their relatively new computers being not quite compatible.

GOG just distributes what Bioware gave them. Even the limited run of NWN Boxed sets that were -supposedly- updated to 1.69 already ended up needing the Critical Rebuild run to resolve issues.

Anyhow, folk are free to believe or disbelieve as they see fit. In the end, they only harm themselves.
I stand corrected in regards to graphical file formats. Yes. DDS. That sounds correct. Like I said. I stopped doing skins when most GoG buyers were still in elementary school. You are quite right. DDS. I assumed ping because it was a simple file format that supported transparency.

I have been downloading, playing, and making NWN games and modules for years. I ran a MP server with a custom mod packed with CC for two years. My NWN folder is bloated to over 8GB with mods, haks, overrides, etc and I have never had any problems, but it doesn't surprise me that stripping out the high rez skins is a good cure-all for graphical compatibility problems. It IS an old game and the more you streamline the graphics demands the easier time new cards will have rendering it and the smoother it will run. Likewise if you have files that have been corrupted either on install or just over time the critical rebuild is a good fix if you don't want to have to download and install the game again.

Yes, By all means. If you NEED it, run a critical rebuild.

Most users, however, won't need it. If you don't need it, don't use it.

And for Pete's sake don't get all pissy at GoG because your machine is having trouble running a 10+ year old game.
Post edited January 28, 2015 by urknighterrant