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kalbaern: @Urknighterrant, Hickory, jjglvz and any other "disbelievers"

If you ONLY play the Original Campaigns and Premium Modules, there's a good chance that the GOG version won't need to have the critical rebuild done.

If however, you download and play modules...
I've said this from the very start. I quote myself:
"Most forum complaints of this sort are usually down to other user created installations."

That is not the issue here. The issue is that MagicalMaster directly accused GOG of deliberately falsifying their advertising, stating that some games they release are patched when they are not. THAT is a lie; THAT is my beef, not that some glitches may or may not be cured by this or that.

Anyhow, folk are free to believe or disbelieve as they see fit. In the end, they only harm themselves.
You do know that is a two-way train, right?
I'm not sure I deserve to be labeled a "disbeliever". I'm only reporting from my own experience that I've had no problems playing GOG NWN with either the original campaigns or with community modules. If you're having problems with PW's and suchlike isn't that more likely due to problems with that particular PW's haks and extra content? Personally, I think this Cult of The Critical Rebuild is getting a bit out of hand, what with it's tenet that "it'll solve all your problems and if you don't have any problems you should get it anyway".
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jjglvz: I'm not sure I deserve to be labeled a "disbeliever". I'm only reporting from my own experience that I've had no problems playing GOG NWN with either the original campaigns or with community modules. If you're having problems with PW's and suchlike isn't that more likely due to problems with that particular PW's haks and extra content? Personally, I think this Cult of The Critical Rebuild is getting a bit out of hand, what with it's tenet that "it'll solve all your problems and if you don't have any problems you should get it anyway".
There is no "Cult of The Critical Rebuild". There are however, Ardent Followers of the Church of "Why don't they just do it and avoid pestering me later when they do find they have issues". The problem on most PWs and Custom Modules isn't with their custom content (most ... not all), its that they've used content heretofore unseen/unused by the player that was added/fixed by the critical rebuild is all. Keep in mind that the Original Campaigns and Premium Modules were all created prior to 1.69 and wouldn't depend on the update. Yes, while much of the 1.69 update contained things from the Premium Modules, those same modules have their own hak sets attached to them for that material.

Now, there can be issues with some custom content. Often, custom content is used while its still a WIP or the user (module creator) didn't realize that there was a later update they failed to include (or they left the community before issues had been resolved). These problems usually differ from the issues folks have when they are missing the the critical rebuild though. Players using various overrides can also cause their own issues when playing on a PW that hasn't used them themselves. In fact, on my PW, I purposely created a set of haks that either contains the most popular overrides or contain files most often often overridden to limit problems as haks take precedence over overrides in the end.

There's also a ton of issues that cannot be -cured- by doing the critical rebuild. They vary immensely and are often related to video drivers/cards, CPU Affinity/not setting or forcing the game to a single thread, not setting Admin Privileges properly for the game amongst other things.

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urknighterrant: Yes, By all means. If you NEED it, run a critical rebuild.

Most users, however, won't need it. If you don't need it, don't use it.

And for Pete's sake don't get all pissy at GoG because your machine is having trouble running a 10+ year old game.
No one here has been "pissy" over an old game not running properly.

Ignoring the advice of the majority of PW Admins/Hosts and Custom Content Creators that have dealt with this issue for several years now is just boggles my mind at times.
Actually magicalmaster WAS getting pretty pissy.

The fact is that GoG is selling a licensed product, fully patched. Users installing the game from disc and manually patching the game tend to have all the same kinds of problems. The fact that it needs some tweaking to run on some machines (sometimes, yes, that includes a critical rebuild) is a perfectly normal part of retro gaming.

Now it sounds to me that you are taking magicalmaster's position way beyond what even he has asked for and are asking GoG to actually build the 1.69 critical rebuild into the download?

Surely you realize that they are not entitled to do this, legally or ethically?
Post edited January 28, 2015 by urknighterrant
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kalbaern: There are however, Ardent Followers of the Church of "Why don't they just do it and avoid pestering me later when they do find they have issues".
Amen, brother.

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kalbaern: There's also a ton of issues that cannot be -cured- by doing the critical rebuild. They vary immensely and are often related to video drivers/cards, CPU Affinity/not setting or forcing the game to a single thread, not setting Admin Privileges properly for the game amongst other things.
Indeed. It's not a magical fix-all...but it fixes problems often enough that you might as well just run it when you install (like you said).

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urknighterrant: Actually magicalmaster WAS getting pretty pissy.
Only when Hickory (and then somewhat you to an extent) stuck your fingers in your ears and went "LA LA LA there's no problem!"

I mean, think about my initial post which Hickory decided to take offense to:

"Run the critical rebuild anyway. GoG games aren't always "patched" like they claim, NWN has had problems with GoG claiming to have patched it to 1.69 in the past, and worst case it doesn't hurt anything."

Are you really saying that sounds "pissy" to you? I was just stating the facts (we can discuss whether I was wrong on some of the technical terms but the gist of the statement -- that the GoG version will often not work properly "out of the box" as it were -- is correct). And I've said (repeatedly) that I don't think GoG is lying or using false advertising, they're just human and mistaken about the state of the game (or unable to "fix" it -- and honestly it doesn't even really matter which it is, just run the critical rebuild and move on, it's not a big deal).

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urknighterrant: The fact that it needs some tweaking to run on some machines (sometimes, yes, that includes a critical rebuild) is a perfectly normal part of retro gaming.
...which is why I said they should just run the critical rebuild to be safe.

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urknighterrant: Now it sounds to me that you are taking magicalmaster's position way beyond what even he has asked for and are asking GoG to actually build the 1.69 critical rebuild into the download?
No, we're both simply saying that when you install NWN...just run the critical rebuild. It's like a vaccine -- hopefully it'll never be needed but it's an easy way to ward off some potential problems. And takes like 5 minutes. It's not like it's this multi-hour process that requires you to be tech savvy or something.
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urknighterrant: Actually magicalmaster WAS getting pretty pissy.
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MagicalMaster: Only when Hickory (and then somewhat you to an extent) stuck your fingers in your ears and went "LA LA LA there's no problem!"
The only person with their fingers in their ears in this thread is you. Even now you are still trying to make out that you never said what you said. Amazing... no, pathetic.

I mean, think about my initial post which Hickory decided to take offense to:

"GoG games aren't always "patched" like they claim, NWN has had problems with GoG claiming to have patched it to 1.69 in the past,"
...
I was just stating the facts (we can discuss whether I was wrong on some of the technical terms but the gist of the statement -- that the GoG version will often not work properly "out of the box" as it were -- is correct). And I've said (repeatedly) that I don't think GoG is lying or using false advertising, they're just human and mistaken about the state of the game (or unable to "fix" it
Stop. Just stop.
"GoG games aren't always "patched" like they claim"
"NWN has had problems with GoG claiming to have patched it to 1.69 in the past"

Those two statements are direct accusations. You are accusing GOG of releasing games, 'claiming' that they are patched, and you, in your idiocy, are saying they are not patched... that GOG is telling lies. I want an answer from you: where is your proof that GOG has released any game that they say is patched, when it in fact is NOT patched? Proof, please, not disgruntled forum user posts. In other words, show me the words from GOG, and show me the file/s that are not as advertised. Until you do that, or you offer GOG an apology, you are nothing but a damned liar, and people in this and any other forum should see you as such.
From the 1.69 Critical Rebuild description.

"If you have the Diamond Edition (GOG distributed), you still need to install this patch. The Diamond Edition is bugged and is missing many files from patch 1.69, that can lead into crashing and other issues. "
Post edited January 31, 2015 by matadorox
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matadorox: From the 1.69 Critical Rebuild description.

"If you have the Diamond Edition (GOG distributed), you still need to install this patch. The Diamond Edition is bugged and is missing many files from patch 1.69, that can lead into crashing and other issues. "
Now go back and read the thread again, taking careful note where it is explained that Bioware excluded hi-res textures from the critical rebuild, forcing the game to display basic skins. It is the other way around. There is NOTHING missing from the Diamond Edition.
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matadorox: From the 1.69 Critical Rebuild description.

"If you have the Diamond Edition (GOG distributed), you still need to install this patch. The Diamond Edition is bugged and is missing many files from patch 1.69, that can lead into crashing and other issues. "
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Hickory: Now go back and read the thread again, taking careful note where it is explained that Bioware excluded hi-res textures from the critical rebuild, forcing the game to display basic skins. It is the other way around. There is NOTHING missing from the Diamond Edition.
Jesus, have you even tried playing the GOG version out of the box?

Let me spare you the trouble, it does not work properly. If you tried to create a character you would know that if you choose any skins color there is a bug where your character looks like fucking silver surfer. Why its so hard for you to understand that people make mistakes? even GOG.
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Hickory: Now go back and read the thread again, taking careful note where it is explained that Bioware excluded hi-res textures from the critical rebuild, forcing the game to display basic skins. It is the other way around. There is NOTHING missing from the Diamond Edition.
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matadorox: Jesus, have you even tried playing the GOG version out of the box?

Let me spare you the trouble, it does not work properly. If you tried to create a character you would know that if you choose any skins color there is a bug where your character looks like fucking silver surfer. Why its so hard for you to understand that people make mistakes? even GOG.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, I have played it out of the box, many times, and no you do not get the issues you describe. Take your foot out of your mouth, before you say something utterly stupid.

Here you go (attached), new character, just created, all non-standard colours, out of the box. It works as intended.
Attachments:
nwnchar.jpg (229 Kb)
Post edited February 01, 2015 by Hickory
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matadorox: Jesus, have you even tried playing the GOG version out of the box?

Let me spare you the trouble, it does not work properly. If you tried to create a character you would know that if you choose any skins color there is a bug where your character looks like fucking silver surfer. Why its so hard for you to understand that people make mistakes? even GOG.
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Hickory: You have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, I have played it out of the box, many times, and no you do not get the issues you describe. Take your foot out of your mouth, before you say something utterly stupid.

Here you go (attached), new character, just created, all non-standard colours, out of the box. It works as intended.
Dude, are you trolling right now?

Just read the 1.69 patch notes. And you have basic color on your character, you need to change it for the bug to appear.

And try to be more educated next time, ok?
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Hickory: You have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, I have played it out of the box, many times, and no you do not get the issues you describe. Take your foot out of your mouth, before you say something utterly stupid.

Here you go (attached), new character, just created, all non-standard colours, out of the box. It works as intended.
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matadorox: Dude, are you trolling right now?

Just read the 1.69 patch notes. And you have basic color on your character, you need to change it for the bug to appear.

And try to be more educated next time, ok?
Don't be a moron. I changed the colours, as I clearly stated, and as you can clearly see. You're not very good at insults, so please, don't show yourself up any more than you already have.
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Hickory: Don't be a moron. I changed the colours, as I clearly stated, and as you can clearly see. You're not very good at insults, so please, don't show yourself up any more than you already have.
Dude... you do know you're arguing with a sock puppet, right? When more than one rep 1 suddenly appears in a two page thread it's a pretty safe bet the person you're arguing with is a sock puppet.
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Hickory: Don't be a moron. I changed the colours, as I clearly stated, and as you can clearly see. You're not very good at insults, so please, don't show yourself up any more than you already have.
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urknighterrant: Dude... you do know you're arguing with a sock puppet, right? When more than one rep 1 suddenly appears in a two page thread it's a pretty safe bet the person you're arguing with is a sock puppet.
I hadn't considered it, but now that you mention it, it does make sense. Ah well, it's done now.
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urknighterrant: Dude... you do know you're arguing with a sock puppet, right? When more than one rep 1 suddenly appears in a two page thread it's a pretty safe bet the person you're arguing with is a sock puppet.
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Hickory: I hadn't considered it, but now that you mention it, it does make sense. Ah well, it's done now.
While your accusations could be true, one's rep points on this forum have little indication as to whether their posts are original or just someone using multiple accounts. If you truly believe that one or more accounts in this (or any other threads) are "sock puppets" as you infer, then I'd suggest you send GOG a complaint listing the suspect accounts and hopefully, they'll take action. Making multiple accounts and using them to respond as if separate personalities is frowned upon (if not actually against a sites rules) on most forums and most Admins/Moderators will take action when notified. Then again, if one can assert that a low rep is a puppet, one could also assert that a high rep points to the user merely being a constant troll. Everyone is free to spin things as they see fit, why should just politicians and pollsters have all the fun?

My own account here is less than a year old. While I've downloaded several games from GOG over the years, I'd forgotten my login password here and it was attached to an obsolete Email address as well, so I couldn't get it reset. When I created a new account last year, it was so I could mainly make posts to advertise my own NWN PW, but after spending some time reviewing the current forums I decided that a PW post would gain little attention and this would just be yet another site to check constantly if folks had questions. Besides, when most folks have issues or questions with NWN and do a Google search, they're most often directed to posts on the Bioware Social Network where there is no dearth of knowledge or individuals willing and able to respond to queries. It was only upon seeing a post on "BSN" that my own attention was directed here.

Now, I'll admit, not everyone needs to install the 1.69 critical rebuild. But, those who play on most PWs or download and play modules built after 1.69 more do still need to do the critical rebuild.

An assertion was made earlier in this thread that it was more likely the critical rebuild was just "fixing" a faulty download from GOG. With the numbers of folks that I've assisted over the years, this seems rather implausible. Just in my own circle of family/friends (including myself) that have used a GOG install of NWN, all but one of us needed the critical rebuild to play smoothly. Even my nephew, fresh back from Afghanistan and reinstalling NWN just three weeks ago needed it.

Why is the rebuild needed? I can't put my finger on it ... yet. The most recent download by my nephew was the same size as my own (I have a hakless, but rebuilt copy on a back up drive incase I ever have need of it to fix one of my other installs) vanilla version that used the rebuild. Still, after double checking the normal "things" like "running as an administrator", CPU affinity, Video/Sound Drivers and various "ini" settings, he was still having bouts of lag and random crashes when playing on my PW. He ran the critical rebuild and "Voila"! No more issues have been reported.

Just six weeks ago, I had five new players show up on my PW. They were all friends that played in PnP in a group over the years, but recently, three had relocated out of the original area and they decided to continue adventuring together online using NWN instead and stumbled across my PW based on it being set in the general vicinity and timeline of their old PnP Campaign. Three used new GOG installs and two had installed from disks years ago and were playing on a variety of PWs prior to visiting mine. Still, four of the five had issues. Of those four, it was three with a GOG install and one with the old disk install that had issues. The old disk install was easy. The player had been playing on a PW that used CEP 2.3. Even though they had originally installed CEP version 2.4, they mistakenly ran the long obsolete CEP Updater which reverted their installation back to 2.3 without them realizing it. Of the three GOG installs, helping one player track down "fixes" for their video driver (it lacked Open GL support) resolved their issues. The other two however had no noticeable game improvement until running the critical rebuild. What exactly did it fix? I've still no clue.

With all that said, I'm not casting dispersions against GOG. They are merely a distributor of software provided by Bioware. If someone wants to complain to them, go for it. At best, I suspect you'd get only an Email back with an audio file attached with crickets chirping. :)

The really sad thing I see in this thread, and others like it, is that just because "I" don't have a problem, everyone else is either crazy or lying. It reminds me of one of the old CEP Admins (Community Expansion Pack - a hak compilation used by many NWN PWs and Modules) that when several folks complained that certain model appearances were bugged, he would go out of his way to discredit and defame the complainers because he himself never experienced the same issues. Even in spite of numerous posts/complaints by a wide variety of folks with different gaming platforms, he lumped most into the category of trolls, haters ... or just idiots. Thankfully, the new CEP Admin has accepted these complaints and added fixes long provided by various community members to resolve these issues in current/future updates. Many folks like myself had long overrode/replaced these bad appearances with our own custom haks too. Still, denying that "anyone" needs a fix based solely on your own experiences is a myopic view of things here.

Lastly, I have an older laptop here that uses a GOG install from about six to seven months ago. I've not yet ran the critical rebuild on it because so far, though I only use it to login as a DM if I'm already playing from my PC and someone else IG needs assistance, I've experienced no problems with it. My PC ... meh ... it uses my original disk/boxed set so does me no good as far as a comparison. My general experience with players online however is that somewhere between 60 and 70% of folks will benefit from it. Not all, but .. a lot. Don't let your personal experiences obscure what others need. I've simply assisted far too many folks and had the critical rebuild fix their issues with a GOG install to ignore the outcomes is all. I.e., even though I haven't needed it myself, far, far too many others have benefited from it to ignore the truth.

My advice ... when in doubt, run it. If you're not sure whether or not you actually need it, it hurts nothing. Here's a fresh link for any wanting it still. 1.69 Critical Rebuild
Post edited February 06, 2015 by kalbaern