No contradiction.
I said that I was not going to expand on my explanation & keep dragging up previous games.
I then invited anyone who wanted more information to seek it themselves.

So, did Jess, Vitek, quad and everyone else who suspected him also misrepresent him?
I never put words in his mouth, or ignored the words he did post.

You are now stretching the definition of "misrepresenting" from how it was used in our arguement last game & this game to suit your arguement.
Frankly, using your new interpretation, the game would be unplayable without at least the majority of Mafia members being guilty of this.

As such, to continue this is completely pointless.

You have now contradicted yourself, you have attacked the whole basis of the game, you have suggested that I am again mafia (I'd like to see any evidence you have...) you claim a "joke" to explain away clear indications that you arbitrarily attempt to execute whom you please.

You're just haemmoraging credibility at this point.

We finally agree! I fully expect TwilightBard to write a sonnet to mark this occassion! :-)

I haven't accused you of being mafia at all, and frankly have no reason to suspect you.

Who wants to guess my answer to this? I'll give you a clue ... it begins with an 'M' ...

That's nothing new; I think it was jess who stated that I appear scummy in every game I play!

Yes.
If he truly believed he had sufficient evidence against me, why feel the need to create more?
This just smacks of desperation & suggests that his case is not as solid as he claims.

In this case he was right, but he could easily have been wrong.
You yourself spent more than 48 hours agonising between me & Orry.
Why, if his case was so cut & dried?

Anyway, I'll be AFK for the next hour or so.

He was trying to convince me to vote you.

I spent so much time because sometimes I can be really undecisive so everybody more decisive would vote sooner than I so I don't see why nmillar couldn't be so quick to judge.


And this is quite similar to mafia 5 when he wasn't accusing you of being mafia but kept arguing with you.

You're completely right here, Rodzaju, but the exact same thing can be said about you. And frankly, from the entire argument you two have had, you seem to be the one on the scummier end. Now maybe nmillar's recent ability to win games is shrouding my judgment, but I think, from your argument (And as baz has said and I agree upon earlier, these sort of arguments are hurtful to town), you just made my top candidate,
Thus,
vote Rodzaju

It seems all too much like it, which is a shame. Though I wouldn't say nmillar is completely clear - he could just be pushing Rod's buttons.

My main defense of nmillar stems largely from Rodzaju's attack. It's really dependent on Rodzaju, I don't see a way to defend against metagame attacks without either a) going into meta to defend yourself, or b) ignoring it altogether.

Calling out nmillar for defending himself the only possible way he can (Because I find option b very suspicious) comes out as a forced trap. I'm uncertain if he's town or not (I haven't seen anything overly suspicious at this point in time), but for this attack, I'm kinda leaning too, Rodzaju's being way too overzealous. Even when this has brought up he hasn't relinquished the attack at all, or even toned it down, instead I feel like it's being ramped up.

Now, this whole thing could spawn a dozen wine related theories, and frankly I don't want to throw more confusion in the midst.

Are these attacks being made because you think nmillar is Mafia? Or because you just don't agree with his play style? If you think he's mafia can we get some proof to what you mean that is from THIS game and not from any of the others?

I have no way of knowing one way or the other at this point.

I can just see his claimed (& witnessed) style very dangerous for town.
the more he argued, the more holes I find in his logic.
It all seems based around (as stated before) I get mafia more often than town, so you should just leave me to it.

Given that we have no "Nmillar as Mafia" history to compare against, this is a potentially huge hole in the town's defenses.
Given also that a lot of inexperienced players will take their lead from more experienced players & frequently defer to the same, I feel that this is in need of being highlighted.

I disagree, it puts the accused under a lot of verbal pressure, and one of the arguments will break down somewhere and point out scummy behaviour. If one is truly not scum they will be able to defend themself.

This I disagree with & where the whole theory falls down.
When you are under attack, you have to defend yourself.
Anyone (Especially someone with a habit of twisting words) can make you look suspicous if you give them enough words.

The other problem is, as you said that it puts the accused under a lot of pressure.
There is far too great a risk of people concentrating on the accused and ignoring the accuser.

Whatever the fault, it happens.
That is why it is so dangerous.

So, let me get this straight, as I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

The entire argument stems to: We should lynch nmillar because his style of play means that he could easily cause a mislynch, and if he's mafia his aggressive play is hard to work around.

Did I get the gist of it? Am I off? I'm just really trying hard to understand.

Now, this seems a bit weird to me, but it might just be how you worded it. I agree that defense is a wise thing to do - completely ignoring an attack is not a wise thing to do. The difference comes down to HOW you defend yourself.
And no matter what, people WILL use your words against you, which is why a townie getting into a huge argument is downright dangerous as the scum can just use points in your arguing against either party.

That's the main point of it, yeah.
There are others that pose a similar risk (I guess I'm one of them!), but I see Nmillar as the greatest risk.

No votecount for this post, but I want to say that I'm now looking for yet another replacement, this time for Typhoon. This one may take a bit longer to fill than the prior ones. As a result: the deadline has been pushed back 24 hours to July 3rd. That is all.