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KiNgBrAdLeY7: About eloquent, bah, i know, i am "hate speeching" again...
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pigdog: Actually my comments about you being eloquent were not sarcastic.
I know! But am i not allowed some self-awareness...? And self introspection? After all i aim to surpass ALL my limitations slowly.
Post edited July 06, 2015 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
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ElTerprise: Congrats to Greece! A great decision. One could say that a spectre is haunting europe. The spectre of democracy ;)
Except that Greece is likely to collapse into a military dictatorship.
Congratulations my Greek friends - you're fucked.
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Emob78: I'm loving these butthurt comments from businessmen and supposed free-marketers denouncing Greece for saying no to completely ridiculous debt loads and financial aid thrown upon them from duplicitous politicians. Seems everything is coming full circle. Ultimately, money makes hypocrites of just about everyone.
Actually no - I agree that it was unsustainable and that it was always going to default. This was the wrong way to do it.
Post edited July 06, 2015 by wpegg
This will only end with Greece getting a shitload of money anyway, just to preserve the status quo, but without the reform conditions, nothing will change, the money will go to waste, nothing will change, and we will be in the exact same spot next year or a year after that.
I think this will turn out to be a rather unfortunate decision for the Greeks. Refusing further austerity doesn't change the fact that the Greek government is nearly out of money, owes massive debts, and that the Greek banks are on the verge of collapse. The ECB is currently not providing any additional emergency liquidity assistance, and in light of this vote that is unlikely to change; this means that either the capital controls will continue, or that if they're removed there will likely be a run on the banks that will collapse most of the Greek banking system. Also, with the government running out of money it's likely they'll need to end up introducing scrip to pay employees and pensioners, and there's a high likelihood that this will undergo hyperinflation with all the fun that comes with that. The cost of imports is also likely to skyrocket, due to other countries only wanting to accept Greece's dwindling supply of Euros.

Greece will basically be looking at a situation where they'll have to build their economy back up without the infusion of any additional loans (they just told the last creditors willing to loan them money to fuck off), and with minimal ability to import goods (due to a very limited supply of currency that other nations will be willing to accept, plus the fact that Greece doesn't have many export industries). They may eventually be able to pull it off (although that's quite uncertain), and in the meantime it will be a very rough time for the people of Greece (there's a reason why leading up to the referendum other European countries started talking about plans for humanitarian aid to Greece if they decided to go this path).

Ultimately, like with personal finances, it may feel nice to tell off one's creditors, but that doesn't change the fact that one is still out of money, still owes debts, and still can't pay for things one needs to live.

Anyway, the next big events to watch for are the fate of the Greek banks in this coming week (they look poised to run out of Euros by the middle of the week), and the payment due to the ECB on July 20 (if no further debt agreement is reached by this time and Greece thus defaults on the debt then exit from the Eurozone is pretty much assured).
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: And now i pay consequences for OTHERS' choices
What about the costs of leaving eurozone?
The EU should write their debt off (because it's obvious they'll never be able to pay it) and kick them out of EU.
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DeathDiciple: The propaganda in mainstream media was at all-time high, from fear mongering that puts Fox News to shame, to flat out hatred towards Tsipras. Yet all in vain.
Not in vain. The success of that same propaganda abroad (as illustrated in this very thread) will count much more than this greek vote. Because in this david-vs-goliath situation, what will matter is more what goliath will decide to do with his foot than what pose david will take underneath.

Which does not mean that goliath will be entirely predictible, though. The political cost of making concessions to Greece will be immense, but let's not underestimate the political cost of expelling Greece either (even with the benefit of making an exemple out of it). We'll see which path Germa... "the EU" will choose.
low rated
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: And now i pay consequences for OTHERS' choices
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Pyron: What about the costs of leaving eurozone?
Doesn't count. Since i wasn't given the opportunity to choose, or even vote about it, entering the eurozone in the first place... Generally though, i am going to face everyone or everything that comes at me. I don't hide, i don't fear, i will win by standing on my own two feet, or die trying with power, dignity and self respect, never to crawl, never to beg, kiss ass, lick boot or pet tigers.

Also, i am like an outcast and ostracized. I have faced unfounded and indescribable hostility of former acquaintances and kin. I have been to hell and back three times already. Surviving and even turning everything both into a laugh to amuse me and even into profit in the process, is second nature to me, by now...
Post edited July 06, 2015 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
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Pyron: What about the costs of leaving eurozone?
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Doesn't count. Since i wasn't given the opportunity to choose, or even vote about it in the first place... Generally though, i am going to face everyone or everything that comes at me. I don't hide, i don't fear, i will win by standing on my own two feet, or die trying with power, dignity and self respect, never to crawl, never to beg, kiss ass, lick boot or pet tigers.

Also, i am like an outcast and ostracized. I have faced unfounded and indescribable hostility of former acquaintances and kin. I have been to hell and back three times already. Surviving and even turning everything both into a laugh to amuse me and even profiting myself in the process is second nature to me, by now...
Reads like a propaganda piece. lol
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DarrkPhoenix: I think this will turn out to be a rather unfortunate decision for the Greeks. Refusing further austerity doesn't change the fact that the Greek government is nearly out of money, owes massive debts, and that the Greek banks are on the verge of collapse. The ECB is currently not providing any additional emergency liquidity assistance, and in light of this vote that is unlikely to change; this means that either the capital controls will continue, or that if they're removed there will likely be a run on the banks that will collapse most of the Greek banking system. Also, with the government running out of money it's likely they'll need to end up introducing scrip to pay employees and pensioners, and there's a high likelihood that this will undergo hyperinflation with all the fun that comes with that. The cost of imports is also likely to skyrocket, due to other countries only wanting to accept Greece's dwindling supply of Euros.
Hang on a minute - You can't have hyperinflation and a country staying in a Euro that is not bound to it. You're suggesting hyperinflation of the barter system? The very concept is contradictory. They might introduce their IOUs, but these will in fact become the new currency (or I suppose defaults of their own).
I wonder what would happen if, say, Germany also had a referendum about further financing of Greek debts...
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Titanium: I wonder what would happen if, say, Germany also had a referendum about further financing of Greek debts...
No you don't. You know the answer - they would have said no. In a way they have.
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Titanium: I wonder what would happen if, say, Germany also had a referendum about further financing of Greek debts...
iirc nationwide referendums are not possible by law here. (with a few exception like voting for a new constitution etc)
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Telika: Not in vain. The success of that same propaganda abroad (as illustrated in this very thread) will count much more than this greek vote. Because in this david-vs-goliath situation, what will matter is more what goliath will decide to do with his foot than what pose david will take underneath.

Which does not mean that goliath will be entirely predictible, though. The political cost of making concessions to Greece will be immense, but let's not underestimate the political cost of expelling Greece either (even with the benefit of making an exemple out of it). We'll see which path Germa... "the EU" will choose.
I'm not sure the immediate Goliath's response will be influenced by damage control success - it's based on votes of banksters and lobbyists, and those people tend to get detached from reality and regular people's responses. But in the long run, the propaganda will continue as to scare other countries from trying to follow suit, and I would be surprised if the europe doesn't get another set of laws restricting the political protests and such (under one excuse or another, but as we know, terrorists aren't exactly known to make peaceful protests against government so that they needed 'gag law' against terrorism, etc.)