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General discussionThe "GOG Bethesda" joke - or how customers get the short one(210 posts)(210 posts)
(210 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 18, 2023
high rated
I changed the title of this thread a few times. It was more agressive before and more provocative but in the end I thought this all could only be a bad joke and it is hard to still take it serious. So I decided to treat it like a joke - even though I am not actually laughig.

What happened?

When Bethesda decided to merge their classics "Wolfenstein 3D" and the standalone expansion "Spear of Destiny" they also deleted the additional mission packs which were part of the product when you purchased SoD on GOG. The omission has been confirmed by fan sites as well:

https://wolfenstein.fandom.com/wiki/Spear_of_Destiny_mission_packs

When the merger happened GOG created a new library entry for Wolfenstein 3D (which contains Wolfenstein 3D and the regular Spear of Destiny missions) and prevented access to the original versions that I purchased even though they still had the files and the installers and everything. They simply blocked access to what I paid money for therefore making me lose access to the additional mission packs.

I decided to contact GOG support and asked them to get back access to my originally puchased library entries - at least to Spear of Destiny since the mission packs where part of the contract when I purchased the game. GOG support to my surprise advised me to contact Bethesda which is wrong on several levels since I never had any contract with Bethesda and therefore it is GOGs responsibility. I told GOG support so and they said they will try to explain things to their superiors and ask what they can do. GOG support also told me that it could take some time. I decided to contact Bethesda anyway but apparently did not get any reply when I used their contact form.

Months later I got reply from GOG support. They said they tried everything but they can't help me and they aren't allowed to tell me anything to make sure they don't breach contract with their partner (funny how they don't have problems of possible breaching contract between the customer and them). Once again they suggested me to contact Bethesda instead.

Since the request seemingly did not help I tried Twitter and Facebook and was completely ignored by Bethesda. Then I tried their discord and after a few minutes my post was deleted ... so I posted again. Today I talked with some users on their discord who gave me a link I should use. Since it has been months I was not sure anymore if I used this for my request or not but when I accessed the site I had to create a new account so I though that it was in fact another site I used last time. To my surprise when I loged into this "new" account I already had received a mail which was the answer to my request months ago ... so it WAS the same site I used. Here is Bethesda's reply:

"Thank you for contacting the Bethesda Customer Support Team. My name is Alex and I will be assisting you today.
I understand you are displeased with the Wolfenstein 3D listings on GOG.com. I know just how frustrating this can be. For any issues you have encountered with your purchase or your product received, please contact your retailer for further assistance. As this was not purchased through us, we will be unable to assist in this manner."

This was a lot of text and it might be easy to get lost here but in short:

GOG was telling me to contact Bethesda (which is wrong in every law I know of) and Bethesda was telling me to contact GOG because I did purchase the game at GOG. The customer ends up losing access to part of their purchase and scratching their head.

So thank you GOG and thank you Bethesda for proving that there is no real safety in keeping your games no matter if they are DRM'd or not.

When it comes to the legal site: I am not sure if it even was legal to remove things AFTER the purchase and I am wondering if it would be legal to get my backup elsewhere in case I should lose my archived SoD installer ... I mean, Bethesda never revoked my licence to use their software I received when I purchased the game years ago. They limited access on stores but legally this should not matter much ...

I am posting this to let people know what happened not because I expect any help anymore but I hate it if bad things get swept under the rug and imo the GOG community has a right to know how things are handled by GOG and their "partners" to make informed decisions in the future. I personally have learned that some companys simply are too big to stay human and they think they can do whatever they want. My decision is clear: not another cent on anything that has Bethesda involved.

Edit: GOG resolved the issue on 01/25/2023 by readding the old versions of Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny back to the libraries of those who purchased the game before the change and therefore proving that they REALLY do listen to our feedback ... they are just not so big on talking ;) Thank you GOG for showing support for your customers in the end!
Post edited January 25, 2023 by MarkoH01
Posted January 18, 2023
high rated
Yeah that lines up with my own experience because the crazy as fuck thing is the two spear of destiny addon packs are still available with the steam version for the moment too, so I sense Bethseda fuckery here or they intend to do the same to the steam version when no doubt it gets updated before the next god awful Wolfenstein game gets announced/released.

If Doom 2016 ever comes to GOG I will be really REALLY hesitant to purchase it here.
it will be a battle of wills for the ages with me.
Posted January 18, 2023
high rated
Meanwhile, Doom 3 on steam has included the original and expansion, here on gog only the BFG. When Bethesda treats at the same level i will buy it. At the moment, not.
Posted January 18, 2023
Fucking depressing. I knew the extra missions went missing, but thanks for letting us know how the issue has "progressed."

Yeah D3 original + expansion would be so nice to have. I have them on disk anyway, but I'd still want them here..
Post edited January 18, 2023 by clarry
Posted January 18, 2023
high rated
avatar
MarkoH01: This was a lot of text and it might be easy to get lost here but in short: GOG was telling me to contact Bethesda (which is wrong in every law I know of) and Bethesda was telling me to contact GOG because I did purchase the game at GOG. The customer ends up losing access to part of their purchase and scratching their head.

So thank you GOG and thank you Bethesda for proving that there is no real safety in keeping your games no matter if they are DRM'd or not.
I'm not surprised. I'm certainly not defending GOG or Bethesda, but in this age of Remakeitus the only real game preservation (even for DRM-Free games) is to double back-up the exact version of your games that you want (inc mods / patches) then resist the temptation to "update for the sake of updating" as insurance against "bait & switches". The only real Golden Rule is "Do not under any circumstances trust 'The Cloud' (inc GOG Library) to retain specific versions of anything in the long-term", games or mods, free or paid.

As for GOG, they need to stop bait & switching out original content then shrugging if off as unimportant, as it both kills off any incentive for collectors to "double dip" here, and also drives those who do want the original content back to abandonware sites that still host it (not to steal it but merely to retain the version they paid for but no longer have, even on 'you buy it, you own it' DRM-Free stores...)
Post edited January 19, 2023 by AB2012
Posted January 18, 2023
avatar
argamasa: Meanwhile, Doom 3 on steam has included the original and expansion, here on gog only the BFG. When Bethesda treats at the same level i will buy it. At the moment, not.
Not the best comparison: the original Doom 3 and other Bethesda games were on Steam long before GOG managed to cut a deal with them to bring their games; Doom 3 was removed on Steam when Doom 3 BFG edition released, that very *new BFG* version of Doom 3 GOG received along with Wolfenstein 3D / Spear of Destiny and original Doom 1-2 games.

Original Doom 3 version was put back mainly (only) because Steam users were very VOCAL about the situation, something GOG users could never do since GOG forums are read by GOG moderators only and not the management, and as another reason - perhaps Bethesda *don't pay a lot of attention* for GOG's needs anyway.

What would be the proper comparison is that Steam version of Spear of Destiny for some reason has those intact, Mission 2: Return to Danger and Mission 3: Ultimate Challenge in one package, at least for those who purchased it in the past.
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Post edited January 18, 2023 by Cadaver747
Posted January 18, 2023
high rated
I followed much the same steps as Marko, and even to me GOG support reiterated twice that I'd have to contact Bethesda personally to resolve the issue, which is absurd, especially if on Steam the two removed packages are still available as Lord_Kane says. Bethesda support never got back to me but I honestly don't expect any useful response.

I've checked pretty much the entire history of GOG and this really seems to be the first and only example of voluntary removal of a regularly purchased game* from the users' library, which doesn't make one feel good about the future.

*Excluding the Timberborn demo.
Posted January 18, 2023
high rated
avatar
MarkoH01: GOG was telling me to contact Bethesda (which is wrong in every law I know of) and Bethesda was telling me to contact GOG because I did purchase the game at GOG. The customer ends up losing access to part of their purchase and scratching their head.
Formaly Bethesda is right to direct you to the store. GOG Support are being *not professional* in this situation. What I would recommend you to do is to forward or attach that formal reply from Bethesda to your ticket for GOG Support and let us know about the result. Then maybe someone at the GOG Management will be notified by GOG Support Team as an exception.
Posted January 18, 2023
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Lord_Kane: Yeah that lines up with my own experience because the crazy as fuck thing is the two spear of destiny addon packs are still available with the steam version for the moment too, so I sense Bethseda fuckery here or they intend to do the same to the steam version when no doubt it gets updated before the next god awful Wolfenstein game gets announced/released.
You want to know the likely reason why it wasn't removed from Steam accounts? Because Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny were sold separately there.

End result:
Wolfenstein 3D (Steam) replaced with Wolfenstein 3D + Spear Destiny.
Spear of Destiny (Steam) just removed from store.
Posted January 18, 2023
avatar
MarkoH01: GOG was telling me to contact Bethesda (which is wrong in every law I know of) and Bethesda was telling me to contact GOG because I did purchase the game at GOG. The customer ends up losing access to part of their purchase and scratching their head.
avatar
Cadaver747: Formaly Bethesda is right to direct you to the store. GOG Support are being *not professional* in this situation. What I would recommend you to do is to forward or attach that formal reply from Bethesda to your ticket for GOG Support and let us know about the result. Then maybe someone at the GOG Management will be notified by GOG Support Team as an exception.
I am aware of the law and I am aware that I only have a contract with GOG - which is exactly what I told GOG support again and again ... so yes. I know that Bethesda also is right by redirecting me to GOG but if they don't allow GOG to help me with my issue - which obviously is the case given the "we aren't allowed to discose anything" reply I got from support it is Bethesda again ... and yes, of course I have already sent my Bethesda reply back to GOG support who was about to close my ticket. The only thing GOG cares about are their "partners" so no, I highly doubt they would make any exceptions but if there still should be progress I will post it as well.

*sigh* Thinking of how much time and nerve these things cost I really should stop buying games ... it is becoming work instead of fun if you also have to fight so often ...
Posted January 18, 2023
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Alexim: ... especially if on Steam the two removed packages are still available
It was delisted from Steam last year I think, so technically it's not available for anyone but those who were quick to purchase the game, at least it was not cut the way GOG's version did.

There is a reason to think that what really happened was the direct instructions from Bethesda to remove those 2 mission expansions due to the expired license for rights from ex FormGen. And Bethesda Support team don't have a way to know that or the way to ackowledge that, and GOG Support were trying to hint at that by saying about contract breach.

But it's only a speculation.
Posted January 18, 2023
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Lord_Kane: Yeah that lines up with my own experience because the crazy as fuck thing is the two spear of destiny addon packs are still available with the steam version for the moment too, so I sense Bethseda fuckery here or they intend to do the same to the steam version when no doubt it gets updated before the next god awful Wolfenstein game gets announced/released.
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Grargar: You want to know the likely reason why it wasn't removed from Steam accounts? Because Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny were sold separately there.

End result:
Wolfenstein 3D (Steam) replaced with Wolfenstein 3D + Spear Destiny.
Spear of Destiny (Steam) just removed from store.
I am confused. This is exactly the same as on GOG - but the merged version does not have the mission packs in it anymore. So if this happened on Steam they don't have access to the missions pack anymore as well.
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Cadaver747: There is a reason to think that what really happened was the direct instructions from Bethesda to remove those 2 mission expansions due to the expired license for rights from ex FormGen. And Bethesda Support team don't have a way to know that or the way to ackowledge that, and GOG Support were trying to hint at that by saying about contract breach.
Which would give them the right to remove it FROM STORE but not FROM LIBRARY of those who purchased when they still had the rights- that is the problem here.
Post edited January 18, 2023 by MarkoH01
Posted January 18, 2023
avatar
Lord_Kane: Yeah that lines up with my own experience because the crazy as fuck thing is the two spear of destiny addon packs are still available with the steam version for the moment too, so I sense Bethseda fuckery here or they intend to do the same to the steam version when no doubt it gets updated before the next god awful Wolfenstein game gets announced/released.
avatar
Grargar: You want to know the likely reason why it wasn't removed from Steam accounts? Because Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny were sold separately there.

End result:
Wolfenstein 3D (Steam) replaced with Wolfenstein 3D + Spear Destiny.
Spear of Destiny (Steam) just removed from store.
Oh yeah, I forgot that I havent really looked at steam in years.
Posted January 18, 2023
avatar
MarkoH01: I am aware of the law and I am aware that I only have a contract with GOG - which is exactly what I told GOG support again and again ... so yes. I know that Bethesda also is right by redirecting me to GOG but if they don't allow GOG to help me with my issue - which obviously is the case given the "we aren't allowed to discose anything" reply I got from support it is Bethesda again ... and yes, of course I have already sent my Bethesda reply back to GOG support who was about to close my ticket. The only thing GOG cares about are their "partners" so no, I highly doubt they would make any exceptions but if there still should be progress I will post it as well.

*sigh* Thinking of how much time and nerve these things cost I really should stop buying games ... it is becoming work instead of fun if you also have to fight so often ...
OK, thanks. Let's see and wait.

I can't wait for the "please contact Microsoft" reply and complete delisting of all Bethesda games from GOG shortly afterwards.

Stop buying the games seems reasonable enough given the circumstances, but that wouldn't stop GOG from removing part of the already purchased games. And yes, it's not fun anymore, sometimes it feels like a routine work to me.
Posted January 18, 2023
avatar
Grargar: You want to know the likely reason why it wasn't removed from Steam accounts? Because Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny were sold separately there.

End result:
Wolfenstein 3D (Steam) replaced with Wolfenstein 3D + Spear Destiny.
Spear of Destiny (Steam) just removed from store.
avatar
MarkoH01: I am confused. This is exactly the same as on GOG - but the merged version does not have the mission packs in it anymore. So if this happened on Steam they don't have access to the missions pack anymore as well.
avatar
Cadaver747: There is a reason to think that what really happened was the direct instructions from Bethesda to remove those 2 mission expansions due to the expired license for rights from ex FormGen. And Bethesda Support team don't have a way to know that or the way to ackowledge that, and GOG Support were trying to hint at that by saying about contract breach.
avatar
MarkoH01: Which would give them the right to remove it FROM STORE but not FROM LIBRARY of those who purchased when they still had the rights- that is the problem here.
I still have the SOD mission packs when I install SOD from my steam version.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionThe "GOG Bethesda" joke - or how customers get the short one(210 posts)(210 posts)
(210 posts)