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tinyE: Yeah, while I've been having some fun with these censorship threads, this is getting old. It's like blaming the bartender for refusing to sell to a minor.
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Fenixp: I do believe the issue, if I understand it correctly, lies in the fact that before GOG focused on German customers, it did not need to have such restrictions in place. Now that it does, it ... Well, does. So the argument is made that it's been better off before.
Looks that way to me as well, the more "worldly" they try to make the forums the more restrictive the shop seems to become.
Post edited February 28, 2015 by Rusty_Gunn
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Fenixp: I do believe the issue, if I understand it correctly, lies in the fact that before GOG focused on German customers, it did not need to have such restrictions in place. Now that it does, it ... Well, does. So the argument is made that it's been better off before.
Indeed, folks absolving GOG of any blame seem to forget the fact that selling the now regionally locked games wasn't an issue just a few days. Denying that the introduction of a German version of the website is the reason for GOG suddenly deciding to adhere to German laws despite many years of selling all the games without any incident before.
The law is the law, it is how it is. For the prices of those two games on the catalogue, GOG will probably gain some more German-speaking customers.

However, I think it could have been handled better by GOG. They should have mentioned this upfront and not only when people were raising a stink. A 404 page is also a poor solution, because it hides this fact from people’s view. They should have just replaced the download button and videos and pictures on these pages with labels, explaining to their German customers why they can’t download those games. This is censorship outright, of the sneaky type.
Post edited February 28, 2015 by Eitot
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Protoss: Half of the games are just not released in Germany because our nazi politicians still defend the Third Reich in any way they can?
I think, you should get your facts straight.
Mabe end school first, before you try to talk about politics, and don't forget to be very attentive in the history lessons.
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Protoss: Half of the games are just not released in Germany because our nazi politicians still defend the Third Reich in any way they can?
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BreOl72: I think, you should get your facts straight.
Mabe end school first, before you try to talk about politics, and don't forget to be very attentive in the history lessons.
Maybe inform yourself first about where our politicians come from.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_ehemaliger_NSDAP-Mitglieder,_die_nach_Mai_1945_politisch_t%C3%A4tig_waren
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaas_Carel_Faber (Nazi murderer who was NOT brought to jail because Germany denied extradition to the Netherlands where he would have faced a life sentence)

Partially related, in that our politicians want to censor media:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugangserschwerungsgesetz
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Protoss: that "nazis must be protected" law[/url].
Oh boy...you really should stop it right there - you very obviously don't even know, what you are posting. Reading comprehension isn't a skill your apt in.
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Protoss: that "nazis must be protected" law[/url].
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BreOl72: Oh boy...you really should stop it right there - you very obviously don't even know, what you are posting. Reading comprehension isn't a skill your apt in.
I know what I am posting. It is a law that makes any depicition of nazi symbols impossible in video games because they are not considered art, but allows people to freely use them in movies because they are considered art. Even if the movie is strictly made for profit and entertainment and not in any historical context.
Essentially that law makes an unbiased report about nazis in the most common media used by today's youth - video games - impossible in Germany.
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MrBoat: I don't understand this german laws. As far as I know, every kid in Germany studied over and over the early XX century, specially the fascist dictatorships and WWII. With such a dedication to teach the kids the history of your country, and what happened, it's nonsense that they censor anything nazi related on video games.
Absolutely, every kid in Germany learns about the "darkest 12 years" in German history. Which is way more, than most countries with "difficult pasts" can pretend, btw.

The reason why the Nazi symbols are forbidden in games is quite easy, actually.

Because games are made to have fun.

And we should not have fun, while playing Nazis - pretty simple, hm?

Now, you could argue, that in most games you aren't even playing as Nazi-Germany, but nonetheless - you have fun, while playing them.

And this leads (for the nitpickers: MIGHT LEAD) to a certain connection: Having fun + Nazi symbols ->Nazi symbols aren't that bad -> Nazis weren't that bad -> Nazism is fun -> assign the learned to real life -> develop a fondness for Nazi ideas -> become a Neo-Nazi

Now, this is obviously a simplified chain and it won't apply to (most) adults, because those are either mature enough, to not fall for this chainreaction, or because they are Nazis already (a point, btw. that is not to dismiss, since often enough, you see German guys complain, why they can't actively play as the Germans (aka The Nazis) in certain games, very often in connection with nicknames, that give their affiliation right away (e.g.:"Wolfsrudel88", etc.) ).

Minors, (Kids and youths) on the other hand MIGHT be influenced in the way described above - which is why the law was made to "protect" them.

However, I would argue, that the law was more made to protect our democracy as such, because the law is not just made to avoid the depicting of Nazi symbols in Games, but also to forbid the public disply of these symbols (e.g.: at demonstrations, etc.)

Here in Germany the slogan applies: "Wehret den Anfängen!" (Nip it in the bud). Which means as much as: don't let the Nazis rise up ever again.

And this starts with taking away their symbols.

Believe me, those dimwits would only be too happy, if they were allowed to march the streets under the swastika-flag again.

To make a long story short: Nazism is bad, games make fun, you are allowed to have fun with games, as long as there are no Nazi symbols in them, to avoid you having fun with Nazism.

Now, when it comes to movies...

Depicting symbols of the Nazi-Regime in movies is ok, because most movies are historically correct (to more or lesser extent) and they show what terrible deeds and times these symbols stood /stand for.
Then there are movies like "Inglourious Basterds", where we enter a certain "grey zone". These movies are not historically correct, but while they depict the Nazism in a way, that we can laugh about (aka have fun), we -as movie-watchers- are only passive consumers.

Which is quite contary to actively playing a game.

Long story short: Movies = passive consume / Games = actively partake.

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MrBoat: What's the problem?, it's not like nazis are shown as the good guys, ever.
But, even if they were the good guys, what? is a fucking game, I can play GTA V but I can't play a WWII game as a nazi?
see above
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infinite9: In other words, Germany's lack of freedom of speech and freedom of expression strikes again.
I don't know, how you come to the conclusion we would not allow everyone to say or express, what s/he believes in?
Please don't let yourself be deceived by some idiots here in the forum, who think they live in a facist country under a facist regime - those guys don't know shit, what that would really imply.

The only difference (?) to other countries is - we have to bear the consequences when doing so.
(which doesn't mean, we have to face legal proceedings /lawsuits, every time we say something "wrong" - it just means, we may face disagreement, with what we say).

And please don't confuse the right of speech with displaying forbidden (and forbidden they are for good reasons) symbols (aka swastikas).

Because THAT would bring lawsuits with it.
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BreOl72: Believe me, those dimwits would only be too happy, if they were allowed to march the streets under the swastika-flag again.
I believe we both agree that this is intolerable. However, it is my firm belief that Germany would instead of the nonfunctional current laws need a law like in Austria about "Nationalsozialistische Wiederbetätigung" (english page). This would on the one side forbid nazism and on the other side allow using its symbols for purposes that go against nazism in any medium.
Post edited February 28, 2015 by Protoss
Lambada: The Forbidden Dance!

Sorry, I had too.
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BreOl72: And this leads (for the nitpickers: MIGHT LEAD) to a certain connection: Having fun + Nazi symbols ->Nazi symbols aren't that bad -> Nazis weren't that bad -> Nazism is fun -> assign the learned to real life -> develop a fondness for Nazi ideas -> become a Neo-Nazi
You lose me at killing nazis is fun -> .. -> nazism is fun -> .. -> become a neo-nazi. No matter how many things you put in the middle, wouldn't an easily influenced person start hunting down neo nazis instead?
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P1na: You lose me at killing nazis is fun -> .. -> nazism is fun -> .. -> become a neo-nazi. No matter how many things you put in the middle, wouldn't an easily influenced person start hunting down neo nazis instead?
Yeah. I think it's more of being worried about desensitization and worrying heavily that the movement may make a return because people don't see the Nazi regime for how horrible is really was. If you see Nazis everywhere (and in games from the 90's/early 2000's they were EVERYWHERE) then you'll begin to see them as a bogie man instead of the very real threat that they once were.
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P1na: You lose me at killing nazis is fun -> .. -> nazism is fun -> .. -> become a neo-nazi. No matter how many things you put in the middle, wouldn't an easily influenced person start hunting down neo nazis instead?
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paladin181: Yeah. I think it's more of being worried about desensitization and worrying heavily that the movement may make a return because people don't see the Nazi regime for how horrible is really was. If you see Nazis everywhere (and in games from the 90's/early 2000's they were EVERYWHERE) then you'll begin to see them as a bogie man instead of the very real threat that they once were.
Holy shit paladin, when did you get so smart? Seriously.

My only concern with countering "desensitization" (which I think is a valid problem) would be going to the extreme and limiting the imagery to the point that people forget.
Post edited February 28, 2015 by tinyE
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Protoss: Maybe inform yourself first about where our politicians come from.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_ehemaliger_NSDAP-Mitglieder,_die_nach_Mai_1945_politisch_t%C3%A4tig_waren
Oh boy - this gets funnier and funnier.
Not only are you digging up something, which every political interested German already knows for decades, you also dig up completely unrelated shit - unrelated because the politicians your super wiki-list shows aren't involved in actual politics anymore - and most weren't ever, at all.
Most of them are long dead, which was to be expected, anyways, since -as you wrote yourself- they were politically active AFTER 1945 (!), which is a whopping 70 years ago.

The only two names a quick scroll-down revealed, that were active in a "recent" time were Karl Ahrens, who was in the Bundestag (House of Representatives) until 1990 (!) and Franz Schönhuber, who was Member of the European Parliament from 1989 - 1994 (!), and -afaik- was never a member of the Bundestag. He provided for the optional, but got only 2,42% of the votes.

Once again - get your facts straight!
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Protoss: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaas_Carel_Faber (Nazi murderer who was NOT brought to jail because Germany denied extradition to the Netherlands where he would have faced a life sentence)
I really don't know, what this has to do with anything games related.
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Protoss: I know what I am posting. It is a law that makes any depicition of nazi symbols impossible in video games because they are not considered art, but allows people to freely use them in movies because they are considered art. Even if the movie is strictly made for profit and entertainment and not in any historical context.
Essentially that law makes an unbiased report about nazis in the most common media used by today's youth - video games - impossible in Germany.
Read my reply to Mr Boat (Comment Nr.113)
Post edited February 28, 2015 by BreOl72