But in my personal opinion; women are sexually frustrated these days. In part because men are overworked and being attacked upon by fake feminists.

Can you explain connection here?

That was just a summary, not sure how to explain it any better than I did previously. Women in media are often portrayed as things to protect or earn or simply look at. If you're a woman hoping for a character to identify with in a game that can be off-putting.

This is not an explaination. You're just repeating feminist narrative: women depicted attractive, ergo they are portrayed as objects, ergo female players can't enjoy such games. None of which makes any sense.

ALL characters in games are by definition "objects" with which you interact. Developers try to make ALL characters being good looking - physically fit, not ugly, etc. There are exceptions, of course, but mostly characters are made the way you want to look at them, not being repulsed. Especially, when it comes to protagonists. Because most people like to identify with attractive character, not an ugly character.

Since first games didn't feature gendered protagonist at all (Space War for example was about two spaceships, and there was no mention of who piloting them), your theory is BS.

This is weird, why would some guy jump into a discussion and state what women should be offended by. We need a female version of Mike Pondsmith here.

Alright then, my new theory is that women didn't have the chance to get into early computer games in the 60s because they were too busy being oppressed by men to have the time. But even if that's BS too and women just didn't play computer games for some other reason, what's the problem with some people wanting a female protagonist?

There is NO problem with people WANTING female protagonist, or anything else for that matter. The problem is that SOME people, when they don't get what they want, claim that they are oppressed and discriminated simply because they didn't get what they want.

There are lots of things I want from various games, that I don't get. Why other people should have special treatment? Especially if their demands are very specific, very uncommon, and btw very inconsistend and constantly rise. First, you demand female protagonist. Then you demand ugly female protagonist. Then you demand transgender protagonist. Then you say that transgender protagonist is not depicted positively enough... Note, that many of those demands require a lot of efforts to implement, while their impact on the gaming experience is questionable at best.

Which guy?

OK, nothing to do with me then (don't think the original poster was demanding anything either). Not sure where I stand on this - I can see both sides of the argument.

True, but if they make a choice to save money(on voices/etc) or due to artistic vision I just play as what they give me.....even if it's not my sex/gender/race. Sometimes it's fun to roleplay.
If I were female i'd play a male without hesitation and if a feamle char is sexy who cares? What woman would want to play an ugly woman if she had to chance to imagine herself as more beautiful through the lens of a sexy female characater?

Also yes women had the chance to make games years back. Jane Jensen is one such example. Woman just saw games as a man's/boy's thing back then so they didn't join in(dev/playing) as much.
This is a bit harsh and uncalled for, but true.

Many women who dislike sexy women in media/at shows/etc are less good looking women who are likely jealous of attention being paid to others(even virtual women).

The men usually get sexualized too(you think no women like the hunky men in games today?).....it's just that the women complaining get taken more seriously while being hypocritical and allowing/liking the male kind but not the female kind.

Also no....MORE sexualizationfor the chaos gods.



Women go out in public like that all the time.

Sarakisian(spelling)...the gamergate woman who slept with reviewers for good reviews iirc.
The title under their name is in reference to a certain YT-er who is getting lambasted for saying that....it's not meant as a slur by that user(afaik).

No problem(as that user replied as well), but why do some equate one not liking others who argue for such as that one being against what was asked for by the one who was offended? i.e. If one is offended women are not on a cover and demands it, one can be against that person getting their way yet still be ok with women on said cover.

"If I were female i'd play a male without hesitation"
"Sometimes it's fun to roleplay."

If you were female you'd have to play a male most times anyway because there's often no other choice.

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"if a feamle char is sexy who cares?"

I care when I post on a forum and immediately get called fat and ugly. If you'd had to put up with this kind of thing your whole life you might care too.

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"This is a bit harsh and uncalled for, but true."

If that was true then I would only have ever recieved "barely-concealed disgust" rather than being happily married.

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"the gamergate woman who slept with reviewers for good reviews"

Thanks!

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"The men usually get sexualized too(you think no women like the hunky men in games today?).....it's just that the women complaining get taken more seriously while being hypocritical and allowing/liking the male kind but not the female kind."

It's happened so much more for women and I've grown very tired of it. The hunky men are generally not there for the benefit of women and usually get to do more than sit around looking pretty waiting for a woman to rescue them. It's not just about how the women look.

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"but why do some equate one not liking others who argue for such as that one being against what was asked for by the one who was offended? i.e. If one is offended women are not on a cover and demands it, one can be against that person getting their way yet still be ok with women on said cover."

I never mentioned anything about anyone being offended but if I understand you correctly I would like to see everyone feeling represented and not marginalised (meaning we should have more positively depicted trans people etc.) but I'm not necessarily in favour of interfering with someone's creative project by forcing them to make changes that they didn't want. I just don't know what the best solution to that problem is.

It is odd that games where you can make a character use such specific designs for marketing purposes. Fallout and such focus more on iconic imagery from the world, like Vault Boy or the Brotherhood armor. Skyrim and Oblivion put white dudes in armor on some stuff I guess, but it was never like "THIS is the dude!" like Mass Effect and now Cyberpunk have. Just different marketing strategies though, I don't think there's anything nefarious behind it.

First off thanks for separating your reply so I din't have to. Thanks for saving me some time. :)

1. This is due to the audience being targetted at the time(which was mostly males), and also a lack of female interest in game development. This is changing nowadays as demographics have changed....and change takes time.

2. I actually have gotten called all sorts of nasty things online and offline due to my likes/dislikes. I just shrug and move on. I do get where you're coming from, though, but I don't see how women in games being sexy relates to one being picked on irl/online.

3. I meant the part about some women being jealous and that's why some of them dislike women in games looking sexy, not the other part.

4. Np...the drama around her is full of headaches though, so you have been warned. ;)

5. That's subjective and without checking into every piece of media/irl setting is hard to prove either way(that women get objectified more overall). I would guess that women(being human and therefore as fallible as men) would likely be about as likely to do the same things, though.

And yes, the hunky men are there for the women(and gay men) to look at as well as for men to pretend to be. Many female reviewers have said such many times online that they liked/lusted over such.

Also why point out the women who wait around waiting to be saved and NOT all the women in gaming who kick butt and save the day like Lara Croft/Bayonetta/etc?

I'm not trying to be mean but you seem to be discounting all the stuff done to objectify men as not as bad as what is done to women just to prop up your point to yourself.

6. That last bit was directed at everyone who does such, the outrage mob in general and not you. ;)