votecount / vote count / vote-count / vc

5 villagers want to kill Sean-O'Donnell (Sean-O!) [Lifthrasil] -- Fergus (Nachomamma8), Emily (trentonlf), Marie (bler144), Justin (Stanari), Eric (yogsloth),

3 villagers don't want to kill anyone [no-lynch] -- Laura (babark), Claire (cristigale), Sarah (TammyTown)

2 villagers want to kill Fergus (Ferg) Perkins [Nachomamma8] -- Sean-O (Lifthrasil), Dan (Brasas),

1 villager wants to kill Eric Barton [yogsloth] -- Emma (Ixamyakxim),

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if your vote is not where you want it to be, please say so, and I'll amend the votecount

This is quite possibly one of the strangest posts in the game, which l like (especially when he's competing with weirdposting greats such as Bler, Brasas, yogsloth, etc).

I liked the little self-conscious piece after he said the "I'm town, don't lynch me" line and talked about how it felt weird; I'd imagine that's a point where if he was scum he would feel that the awkwardness was alignment-indicative and thus would be much more cautious about letting that particular piece slip.

I'm amused by his takes on Bookwyrm, the leader for those who don't care about "reasonable thinking" and Tammy the newbie, but I think that they're more likely to come from a newer town player than a newer scum one; this might be a bit of weird logic, but it feels genuine in that he's trying to sort out the game by figuring out what roles people play (this seems like an odd approach for a scum newbie since their goals are very clearly defined as "lynch town" and "don't die" and this doesn't add to either but it makes sense for a town newbie who is trying to figure out what on earth is all of this nonsense happening around him).

You don't need to howl into the wind, but you need to produce something better than a whimper. I don't want a ballsack, I want at least a quarter of a ballsack and you're not even giving them that; part of a town's duty is to clear themselves so that other townies don't waste their time tunneling the hell out of them. I also don't know why the WIM isn't present when we have a two wolf lead; don't you have any interest in solving the game, attaining glory, becoming a god?

lol

But really does yog act this manifestly useless as scum? I mean. I dunno. Maybe this is an elaborate ploy to screw with everyone's head. Maybe other things. We Just Don't Know.

vote nacho

Oh, and whoever said I was useless, I absolutely agree with you. Don't lynch me, though, because I will at some point regain my will to live/dig through isos all day.

And again the transparency in how he feels when he's posting and players seems very genuine to me; the "if I switch now, people are going to accuse me of doing whatever it takes to get free" is something he offered not to push any agenda (he didn't seem like he was moving his vote based on his reads post, which he noted), and, again, I struggle seeing relatively new scum going "sorry guys I'm not going to switch my vote because people keep calling you scum".

And, just as I remembered, the argument that Lift said that didn't exist!

Lift (if you return before you die, which you probably won't): you attacked me for "misrepping you" because I criticized the "babrk wasn't hammered and thus he is scum" argument - how is it a misrep when that's exactly what you're saying here? Are you saying I'm misrepping you because I'm not making it clear enough that you are saying "babark wasn't hammered thus the most likely scenario is him being scum"?

Maybe I am doing that.

In my own special way.

Bump in case you need it since I'm wandering off for a bit

Oh look, I'm achieving glory and becoming a god.

I am a Native American with a Wolf Totem. That does not make me a werewolf.
The entire reason that people have good scumgames is because they do things that other people aren't expecting. Yogsloth is coming into this game as the person who is widely respected for his scum game in particular, thus people have low expectations for them; he acts differently than we expect, he gets townread.
I've used it to similar success as scum; I've gotten away with defending the crap out of partners and argue that I'd never have such obvious interactions with them as scum or I bus them in horrible places and etc. etc. etc. In this particular situation, it's hard for me to believe him as scum over town because as town it's far easier to be interested and pursue random things, but every time it's felt like he's starting to pursue an actual read (his read on you, his read on me/Brasas), it fizzles out instantly when something else pops up. His play today in particular felt like he was ramping up to be Productive Yogsloth and then the Lift wagon popped up and it seemed fairly obvious that it was going through and so he decided to delay it another day.

Maybe.
I'm waiting for the fireworks to start if that's the case.

Look, someone to help push the wagon for you!
Jump on, push, you're not howling into the wind anymore!

I'm pausing my catchup for now to make appearances in other games, so while I'm gone, little things:

I don't really buy the case that yogsloth is town because he's too brazen to be scum. Whenever I say someone is town because they are too brazen to be scum, too ridiculous, it's because they've taken risks that it doesn't make sense for them to take as scum. In this game, yogsloth hasn't really taken risks; he was pretty low volume (and by low volume I mean he didn't actually do anything) and he made some weird RP posts here and there but he'd never taken a path that would inconvenience him severely as scum.

I sort of reaffirmed a townread on babark recently, I think that his posts near death looked extraordinarily town when he was being pushed based on how open he was about what he was feeling what he was typing (which is a level of deception I'd find pretty weird for new-scum). I ended up focusing on him a little bit recently because I didn't like Lift's "Babark is still alive, maybe he's scum??? Probably not haha!" and then later worried that I might be dismissing him for not so great reasons but I feel good here right now.

I am also in agreement on Tammy/Bler being a pretty strong towncore and incidentally not places where scum should be shooting which means that sorting and confirming thoughts on trenton/cristi/yogsloth/lift/brasas are top priorities. My mind has not changed at all in thinking that Lift is still the play for the day, but I do think that it's important that we use the entire day and actually get something from that core of players + me; there is still a lot of kill power unaccounted for and that means that the game can swing very, very quickly which means that getting lazy with lynches at this stage is not really the greatest idea.

From Brasas, I'd like to see where exactly I misrepresented him if he hasn't shown me already and I simply haven't read it.
From Bler, I'd like to hear more talk about yogsloth; from what you've let out in thread I think that you're clearing him for silly reasons and I don't see a reason to hide your cards on him at this point when clearing yogsloth would be a huge win for the game and if he's town and playing like this I really don't think that he's doing it myself.

I also wanted to sneak in an apology to Lift for getting a bit too aggressive with him (particularly with the "this is not how human beings think line"); I sometimes get a bit in the moment especially when I'm trying to catch up quickly and especially when I'm in a weird mood. I do think that you approach mafia differently than I do (which I'm sure is something you know by now), but I didn't mean any offense by my lines towards you, it's just rhetoric that I should be careful about breaking out around people who I've just started playing with >.>

I like nacho's posting tonight.

Bler - I still feel the way I felt about my interaction with nacho that night. I have a tendency to get rather passionate about things at times, and Nacho is pretty good at seeing where I might be going overboard in my arguments usually. Though occasionally he misreads what I'm seeing or the impetus. i still do think I had a point about RW's SK hunt. I didn't care that he thought it was an SK or if he thought that could be me. He was right that it was me that made the kill, but that's not even close to a kill I'd make as an SK or even what I was reacting to. What still kind of sticks with me is that he wrote it off as me suspecting him because he thought it was an SK, which I thought I made it clear that I was referring to the SK hunt. He's seen people SK hunt and get busted for it or hunt for the other team and get busted for it. What I kind of expected from him in that situation if he thought I was going overboard was to talk about why he wasn't fitting the tell specifically if he didn't believe it. I haven't reread RW, so it's entirely possible he wasn't doing it to the degree I thought he was at the time, though because I had him as a scum read starting with his predecessor it might have been exaggerated to me. But what nacho did was say he thought he was town and that he also thought it was an sk. And since my suspicion on RW wasn't only that, it struck me wrong and bugged me.

Though this has happened before when we've both been town. I scum read someone once and because I had a strong reaction to the interaction with my scum read, Nacho thought I was just scum reading him because I was pissed. I wasn't angry but his interference frustrated me and then it was melt down city. Later, when I explained my reasoning, he understood and realized for other reasons that the guy was scum. This could be a similar situation.

My concern in that situation was that he was running interference for RW as he and dess were my biggest suspects and that he supported my push on dess because I was voting town and he was protecting RW. But dess was scum so that's wrong. Part of it was paranoia and part of it was me trying to figure out why he didn't acknowledge the tell and was writing RW off as town.

Anyway I hope that helps understand that and what I was thinking there.

I think there was another question out there to me and there are some other thoughts I have but I'm starting to fade. This medicine I've been taking has done a number of my sleep schedule and mental alertness, so I apologize if I sound scattered and hopped up on caffeine.

I don't recall saying I agreed with him - really on any of those points.

I think I'm pretty clear as being on record that his whole stan+Ix theory is ridonculous and I've never liked that vote - pretty sure I've criticized nearly all his votes.

Similar to what you said, if he is town he's legitimately irked by her play style, and if not thinks he can use the cultural differences as a viable smokescreen either to get her lynched or to camp out safely.

So as much as I laughed at your joke on Stan+tone, I think my response is really judging Lift's tone - do I think he believes what he's saying? This was in the midst at trying to tone read both Dess and babs as well, which is really not my strength. (I think my strength is just talking a lot) So at the time I'd guess I was inclined to say yes enough to put Lift off.

Without splitting hairs too much, I'll say that, not unlike yogs, I find the sundown/dusk rules a bit stifling. While I haven't been punished per se, I've been warned multiple times about various infractions. So I end up inserting lines like that just to be compliant that I haven't necessarily thought through in great detail and just want to move on.

The paragraph starts with "For sundown purposes..." but in the next paragraph I think it's reasonably clear that my attention is really on the babs and babs v. dess question.

I do agree the explanation of his vote looks mechanical looking at it now, and I probably missed that.

In 337 posts I've mentioned Lift 144 times, so...I've probably said a range of things about him. ;)

FWIW, there was a similar post where I said I liked one of RW's posts even though there were a number of things I didn't like and I came back to critiquing his SK theory - again - in my following post. I think it was one of the post that made Tammy rage at him.

I'm aware that neither of those make me look particularly fantastic, but I'll blame them both on trying to be conciliatory and not tunnel, and also just end of long day fatigue.

That said, Lift is a good player, but his struggle the last few games has been presence. I don't really like anything he's actually done, but the seed of doubt in the back of my mind says "Hey, it could just be a function of not having much time and stumbling under the volume of stuff." Which is one of the key reasons I led his wagon in the last game we were in together and he was indeed, town.

Also FWIW.

Oh that reminds me, RW was scum so misrepping my points and ignoring my clarifications to further his agenda was what he was supposed to do, so apologies for getting so mad. I felt like he was mocking me by calling me an elite player, and I don't think that of myself at all. But yeah.

I need to read through the links that Bler left. Thank you by the way, I was going to start trawling through the forum trying to find past games. There was a little bit that I liked about Lift's post, but I do agree that the not wanting to claim cuz plans thing is getting old. Plus it's going to stick in my gut about him voting babark even though he didn't think he was scum to end the day but wouldn't vote dess. I feel like I'm sticking on this point quite a bit though.

Thanks for that. Food for thought.

I was actually going to link you the game where scumRW and townHSL got into it but drealmer had gone into nightfall before I got back. Ended up reading it myself and found it a bit inconclusive, but possible. The difference in that game though was that scumJMich essentially kept HSL tied up with jabs while RW landed the body blows. So not entirely the same, or at least I didn't observe anything like that.

Wondered a bit if that's what you thought Nacho/RW were doing, but I don't think it's quite as clear to me. For the record, I observed that game, but I thought it was pretty clear that's what the dynamic was. But that was uncharacteristic feistiness from JMich and I don't really have any base for reading nacho.

There were no flips that game though, which made it work more easily as a tactic. Lynch whoever and then insist they were scum.

I actually agree with that (other than the "silly reasons" - I only ever have very serious reasons), and while yogs was overstating it slightly - at least for the present state - I think what he's describing about who scum have to knockoff to win is actually possible. Amusingly, he will probably be an NK if he lives another few days and be proven right. Again. Bastard.

But as we're pushing Lift for a claim I'd prefer to table yogs at least until after that occurs and probably til D3, if he's alive.

I presume you don't see any reason for Lift not to claim either?

You do know that vote doesn't count, right? j/c

Defend Stan - she either did or didn't know that vote doesn't count. Don't lynch her!

Oh, the other question I had was how your role/flavor relate. But it's not urgent and at this point maybe also hold it til after Lift's claim, assuming one is forthcoming.

Fair enough. On further consideration, taking your arguments into account, I'm not entirely sure how warranted that read was.

I do indeed.


I'm not sure if it's just me failing to click with gamestate but I don't really see bler as town comparable to Tammy/Ix. He's still several notches above everyone else, but I haven't caught anything screamingly town that it feels like everyone else has. Same with cristi (though that's probably a function of her being less present). Actually it really feels like I should have stronger reads than this but there's still a substantial population in my "well you've done superficially towny stuff but IDK about you" pile. Lif is still my favorite though; too early for tinfoil and also the role silliness is a nope.

Apologies for word salading.