Tea, dried and drying herbs, ladders, beams. It's my carefully balanced zen place that provides comfort and solace against the outside world.

That's really the whole she-bang.

If you want to do some actual she-banging that's gotta be in the house. The barn would definitely collapse unless you're a wet fish in the hay.

Note, just metaphorical hay - as best I can tell no actual hay.

Well, good thing I popped in again today. Freaking embarassing... and Lift now stole my much deserved spot at the wagon start... how cheeky of him. Although, to parapharase whoever that was D1 (Stan?) to find myself in a wagon alone with Lift makes me wonder.

Who am I kidding, they're probably both scum, plus Yogs and a bunch of the rest of you. As someone else said, (paraphrasing) kill them all and let Drealmer sort them out. Hmmm, who knew a beer brings out the Yog in me...

Vote Nachomamma8



heh

Way ahead of you. But kabanosy instead of pizza.

Wait, you'll actually process something for longer than 5 minutes? Alelujah! Alelujah! ;)

Wait.. probably you say... you just breaking my heart again right?

heh

I wrote it in Ron Perlman's voice!

Well Siri / Cortana / my curvy pervy personal assistant transcribed it if we want to be LAL anally precise. But still...

I think you are Dead Man Walking... shoud probably actually try to interact with you more for more pre flip reads... tomorrow though. Don't have more than shit posting in me right now...

Speedy improvement though. Seems like some bug is spreading via Forum Mafia...


[refreshes]

You two deserve each other clearly :D I'll be the better man and marry my hand.

How does what's happening point to largerish teams? If we lynch a wolf today where do 2 more dead wolves come from overnight?

Because it's a game, and it's supposed to be fun!

Besides, I really do want to hear what you have to say. Maybe you have a compelling argument. And Lift may have a claim that makes me or others off his wagon and it will be good to have considered the pros/cons of alternative options in weighting the best course ahead.

I agree the former is quite possible, thus the EBWOP to note it's not the only thing taking cristi off the table for me today.

On the latter, I absolutely agree. Thought I'd mentioned it last night but apparently did not.

But I don't have any actual evidence of multi-ball. If or when there is some, agreed, we need to look at how everyone (potentially even Tammy) fits in that universe.

I'm glad we agree that I'm constant as the northern star. It's a bad thing to be malleable.

Trust me, I've felt those teeth. Once even when I wasn't in the game.

How fucked up is that?

I think that's too long to fit inside the cookie.


As noted, the flavor implies the barn collapses. I wasn't inclined to give away the potential 1-shot nature of it when the question first came up, but I hadn't really counted on yogs ability to poke around.

But the barn is standing, ergo RW is not in the barn. And again, if he was, I would have just claimed credit a la Tammy's coup de grace on Dess.

I'm glad we agree I'm flexible and open to changing conditions. It's a bad thing to be rigid.

On that latter note, part of Tammy's suspicion on Nacho I think was her own heightened sensitive to the game conditions. She was the vig under pressure from RW, and was likely to be agitated by Nacho not backing her up - secondary OMGUS if you will.

@Tammy - I wonder if you'd be so kind as to re-read that sequence and see if feels any different now that you're cleared and presumably looking at it without other stimulation/anxiety?

On the pocketing point, sure, I've seen yogs pocket in other games (Stan, e.g.). But usually pocketing comes via supporting people's arguments, defending them, yada yada.

Yogs might be charming me, or going for derpclear, but I haven't seen anything that looks like "pocketing." If anything he looks like he's going out of his way to look like an oddball loner.

Because it's fun! And you'll be right sometimes and wrong sometimes!

She had mentioned contemplating voting quad here in her last post before nightfall. She bounced back and forth on him quite extensively throughout the day but the progression was pretty well explained and consistent imo.

I shoulda have turned off... I shouda have turned off.
I don't want to sober up just yet you know?

It's like, two wolf flavor NKs Bler... tht's not no evidence. You just choose to get Occam's to fall on a different side than me.

I'll see about reading Lift. Just no clue when I have the time. And D2 seems to be moving fast... Happy now?

I guess I'll answer more tomorrow.

Ok, re-read all of that. Damn you.

1) Do you have evidence of multi-ball, or is that just your best theory as a way to make sense of the gamestate?

2) Those 2nd two paragraphs are ambiguous to the point I wasn't sure I was following. You're talking about wyrm/Nacho as ww or tt? Where did Nacho pocketing wyrm come in? Is Wyrm even pocketable? I can't say as I've ever seen that, though I've certainly been pocketed by Wyrm once. Err...twice.

3) By "fucker looking better" do you mean townier, or better fit for scum?

4) I went through all those nacho/brasas interactions and I just don't see it. I see two smart players with slightly different styles not really communicating and getting OMGUSy a bit. Also some nitpickiness over word choice.

I definitely see him poking at you, but it looks to me like him feeling you out to get a read. I won't go so far as to say definitely town/town, but if he's wolfing there, he's way beyond my skill level.

Will look at the dess links you've provided again, but I don't really think of Nacho as "lurking." When he does post, he's active and lucid. He can be absent for stretches, certainly, (3 days was a bit annoying) but I don't see him doing much deflecting/distracting/dodging. He asks pointed questions, looks like he's surveying and analyzing to me. When I've asked questions he's answered without emoting, and generally satisfactorily.

You also left out some Nacho/Dess interactions that I thought looked pretty good for him, albeit I don't doubt there within his ability to fake for distancing.

So before I dig those out, if you concede you might be tunneling, did you observe any posts that you thought might at least potentially be exculpatory or that you instead want to make a case are him distancing a buddy?

This is a 17 player setup. That means probably 4 wolves. Maaaaybe with a neutral thrown in there, but I tend not to worry about that. And if we had one, it was probably Fox, which would explain drealmer's ease at killling the poor sap and decision not to flip him.

2 wolves are dead; 11 players remain.

Tammy is about as Town as you can get without being an "Innocent Child". Wolves have to kill her because she's never ever getting lynched, despite the fact she's now vanilla, having used her shots.

bler is pretty damn Townie too. I'd love to be wrong so I could congratulate him on snowing me, but I don't think I'm wrong. If he IS a wolf, he's not getting lynched unless he's caught mechanically somehow. Wolves will have to get him eventually too.

They also have to be wondering what the hell I've been doing all this time. I mean, mostly I've just been assing around, but this is also the part of the game where things start to come together a bit. I'm feeling confident. Townies, you should be, too.



This game is trucking along nicely to resolve itself. I think it highly likely the three of us above will have to be murdalized at some point, so even if Town mis-lynches three times, the game should still be live (3 vs 2). And there will be information gathered to help further narrow the field of suspects.

Relax, kick back, and let's start brutally snuffing you poor suckers in the POE, shall we?

Suuuundooown and you'd better take care
if I find you've been creepin round my back stair
Sooooommmetimes I think it's a shame
When I get feelin' better when I'm feelin' no pain


It's sundown! Hooray!

Yeah, I'll concede that. The trouble is when I try to do anything with it, it goes nowhere that's particularly logical. I'd been inclined to view it as something like 12/4/1 with Quad's kill potentially being SK, and while RW's death is troubling, can't exactly rule out lovers.

Note Quad's post doesn't say he was eaten (a la Julie, IIRC); whereas Wyrm's specifies "devoured."

Also no pack flips. That was the case in the all-scum game, but there were lots of bastard elements there.

The other issue is the numbers problem. If there are two teams, are they 2x3? Or is your theory that it's like 3x2, in which case we should be looking hard at Stan to elaborate on her "RW got et" theory?

@Stan - were you proposing 3 wolf teams?

8/3/3/3 I just don't see possible. 10/2/2/2/1 I guess maybe, though especially with multiple PRs that's probably too strong a town. The lack of pack flips helps a little, maybe.

All of those just seem...too random to even decide who to lynch on. Multi-scum split might explain the bizarro voting D1 to some extent though, maybe.

This is probably the strongest town-read I've gotten from you in a while though, even if I disagree with parts of your case. Appreciate you laying it out.

I don't think we should rush on Lift, fwiw. I'm inclined to hear his claim, but am opinion to counter-views on that.

_____

I'm going to still defend yogsloth, for compliance purposes under rule 1.8(IV)(a). If this is the island of misfit toys, the misfits (tammy, Ix) look like town to me atm. And if I had to guess yogs is also a misfit.

Ia case? I literally ranted for ten minutes lol. You're pretty town too I guess! With all the analysis n stuff. Though I rather imagine WIM is less than AI for you.

For clarification I thought your barn ate RW.

Brasas - Sorry I misunderstood. I'm not exactly sure how to answer your question then so sorry if this doesn't come close. Deadlines are the trickiest part for me in games, especially day one. I am always reassessing my reads and making sure i still feel how I felt five minutes ago about people. I don't do reads lists because it actually makes things more confusing for me, but I generally have a person or two that I think are very likely to be town. I tend to use those reads to balance out my own. So if I'm leaning town on someone that a strong town read of mine is scum reading, I'm likely to take a second look at that person, unless I know the person quite well and value my read above theirs.

Near deadline all of this becomes a hyper focus and I tend to doubt all of my reads. I'm concerned I'm about to mislynch someone and think that maybe someone else is more correct than I am. So, I tend to waffle quite a bit at deadline. Sometimes when I think that I'm right but I'm about to start panicking I just step away from the game and don't post because I know I'll talk myself out of it.

I don't know if that helps, but it's just a typical process I go through at deadline. I thought the dess wagon might not go through so I thought about others I might be willing to switch to that might be likely to go through. Ultimately nothing though.

I'm not sure how that helps with reading Nacho though. Nacho is difficult to read and barely anyone can actually read him correctly. I'm pretty decent at reading him, but in slower games like this I tend to be slower to get a decent read on him. In fast games, like in GoT, I have a really good track record of reading him pretty quickly, but this format is so different. There's a spark he sometimes has, something I've referred to as jazz hands, which lets me know he's town. When that is missing I'm usually concerned. The problem is that that spark ignites as different times in the game and isn't always present even when he's town. I realize that doesn't help you; it doesn't help most people as these are things I've picked up over the years and form my little way of reading him.

I wish I could say that I felt good either way about him, but I don't. I'm still kinda waiting for something that will push me in either direction. There are a few things that make me feel a little off about him but it could be non-alignment indicative stuff. Basically I want to see where he goes today and what he does. I'll probably have more questions for him later.

I'm sorry this isn't very helpful.

~~~

Lift - But you were fine to vote babark even though you didn't find him scummy either. So I'm wondering why dess didn't get that same treatment for you? Hope you feel better!

~~~

I'm out of time. I'll be back. I know there are a couple other questions for me. I'll get to them when I get back.

I forgot about the thrice-damned *****-pounding Sundown rules. ***** ****** on a ****ing flaming pogo stick how can I keep this **** straight.

So, right, Lift is scum because he's barely noticed he's about to die, and a Townie would have more righteous indignation.

Vote yogsloth

Sorry yoggy. There's something up with the trenton / bler / yog voting block and I don't like it. And I felt like some combination of that block were bouncing on and off Dessimu yesterday, but doing it in a deft enough way as to not drive it too far.

Plus, I don't understand the Lifthrasil arguements. I'm not saying Lift can't be scum but I don't see anything overly compelling there and there seem to be a lot of sure people.

Sure people scare me.

Heh, that went over my head. But makes sense now, thanks.

It's just a normal wooden barn that is somehow simultaneously in Drealmer's writing an architectural masterpiece with its maze-iness and clever ventilation system, and yet also a rickety heap that could fall apart if someone leaves the door open too long.

It won't eat anybody. Fall on them, sure. Yogs can confirm it's still standing.

For the record in case I ever am lynched or dayvigged or whatever, I will flip town, and if there's one thing I want town to absolutely know is that I absolutely did not kill anyone N1 or D1, and there's been nobody in the barn.

I don't want that to be a lingering distraction if I'm no longer around to argue the point. As a piece of the puzzle, I can't clarify/confirm anything that has happened to this point.

Yogs, I have some fresh flowers I just cut. Could you be a doll and pick them up and drop them off at Ix's place when you have a chance?

FWIW, I don't mind if people vote yogs, I just think it ends with him not getting lynched anyway and more clarity for whatever scum remain on when/if they should kill him.

I can't rule out that I'd hammer him just for the achievement badge, though.

That may sound anti-town since I now think he's town, but this game is just one game - hammering yogs is forever!

I do like WIMin.

I had to google that.

Amusingly enough, I don't have much of that as scum. In the all-scum game my motivation for most of the game was wanting to tank yog's team's chance of winning so that town could win. And then I got pissed at Hijack's team and tried to sabotage them because he was being a jerkbutt about it.

I spent relatively little time actually trying to win. In the last scum game I wanted to win the role draw at the beginning of the game (suck it, yogs!), and beyond that wasn't much enthused about the actual game and inclined to eff around.

Those are literally the only two times I've been scum, and in both I spent at least part of the game wanting town to win, so...

Not that I would say it's really my driving force as town either. As a self-assessment I'd say that, given the choice, generally I'd rather solve the puzzle and lose than win in the dark.
___

Defend Ix! We should definitely not lynch whatever the heck he is today!

That's not why you shouldn't lynch me today. You shouldn't lynch me today because it makes it easier for scum to kill Tammy tonight.

I'm almost tempted to push the babark wagon again now that the jumping bean is gone and there isn't a fake scum buddy wagon to pretend to push, knowing said scum are going to back off if it gets too close.

It's weird to me that scum missed a chance to lynch (okay, "potentially lynch") a town doctor - that we had to pry the claim out of. I *won't* push it just yet because as days go by, if Tammy, myself and babark are still alive the rest of the town is going to have some serious decisions to make - especially RE: me and babark.

But I am super curious about that block.

You know I was just defending you because I was obligated to comply with the sundown rules, right? The reason itself was window dressing.

I'm going to defend myself here - liking window dressing is not scummy! Don't lynch me for that!

While discussing restrictions/penalties is frowned on, let's just say it's possible that the shitposting about barns and such above after sundown commenced could, purely theoretically, have drawn ...comment.... privately from a munificent deity. So henceforth COMPLIANCE! is the order of the day.

Your comment on the doctor is perhaps important. I believe Lift and I both commented in the thread that we thought the lack of claim signified vanilla - because surely no town PR would risk being lynched and taking the role to the grave with them! I certainly thought it, whether or not I said it.

Whether or not Lift is non-town (I am totes town! Look at me!), anyone paying attention could have noted that observation, even if they didn't think of it themselves.

And also, remember he was never L-1 in a phase where hammering actually closed the day - the point I keep making with Lift. So you pile on as the 8th vote to push it to whatever-the-fuck final day phase, and then he claims and you feel like an asshole and have to play defense?

Not likely to be super appealing.

Again, I think everyone has to break the habit of thinking about "normal" hammering. outside of the final day phase, it's not that thing here.