Damn!

My sister and I found this collection (in spanish) in a bookstore sometime ago and I remember they were not expensive but we did not know nothing about it so neither got it. I'll look for them.

Do you know if the Templars were really Satan worshipers or was that just a bunch of BS from their enemies? Because the Templars definitely had a lot of enemies. They made a lot of people butt hurt with all their wealth.

*Sighs, then settles down to watch the second documentary for the next 3 hours*Kidding, I've seen that one, it's very good, very non-biased view of the Crusades. Great links CD.

That's generally considered to be BS, a theory made up by the Knighthood's enemies to facilitate their downfall. There are many theories behind it, but no evidence, other than conjecture and hearsay. The Templars were in fact, the perfect image of chivalrous Knights. There is little evidence to say that they were not loyal (often impetuous) knights of Christendom. Their downfall was their wealth. The king of France and the Pope (who was been manipulated by the King of France) wanted the Templar's wealth. The Templars had started one of the first banking systems, they stored goods and money in exchange for payment. All of this had made them very wealthy. But as wealth was a virtue the knighthood did not follow, it stockpiled the wealth to use for buying equipment, helping pilgrims, and doing God's work. The Pope and the French king on the other hand, had no problem wanting the wealth for themselves.

The Templars refused to grant the French King and the Pope money, as far as they were concerned they were on a holy crusade, serving God himself, they would not allow themselves to be corrupted by bribery and greed. As a result, the King of France, under the authorisation and partnership of the Pope, declared them enemies of Christendom and captured as many as they could and placed them on trial. During the trial the knights were tortured, and if you have ever seen medieval torture, you will know how horrible this would have been. The accusation of satanism (among others), were an excuse for the torture and execution of the templars. I cannot remember all of the charges, but they are very similar to the charged the French king used against most of his enemies - he even put the Pope on trial at one point. The Templars were tortured and executed in huge numbers, victims of greed and corruption, died not doing God's work, but at the hands of fellow Christians, who's only gaol was getting their hands on the Templars wealth.

The Templars were forced to confess to the many charges (under medieval torture, who wouldn't confess?), so that the King of France and the Pope had a "legal" reason to claim the wealth of the now discredited knighthood for themselves. There was never any real evidence of satanism, even today with all the new book claiming new evidence, there is none, just speculation to sell books. Conspiracies and shock revelations sells more than the regular stories do. The few items that people use for evidence, were not common enough among the Templars to be true, more likely they stored the items - as I said above, they stored goods in return for payment. There is a lot more evidence showing them to be loyal and noble knights of God, knights who were sadly too rich for their own good and became victims of the corruption in the Medieval world.

After the mass executions of the Templar, the knighthood died out. The Pope had ordered all nations in Christendom to hand over the Templars, or to put them on trial and execute them themselves. Only a few nations refused this, England was one such nation. England refused to execute them, or believe of their corruption. King Richard I, the Lionheart, had spend much time with the Templar and fought with them during the crusades, which gained much respect for the knighthood in England. Because of this, and England's reluctance to blindly follow the Pope, the templars were arrested but were quickly released, deemed innocent of all charges. This show of defiance angered the Pope (there is evidence that England only arrested them to annoy the Pope, to let him think were were doing what he wanted and would execute them, the fact we then released them really annoyed him), and was yet another element that led to England eventually becoming a Protestant nation.

Thanks for taking the time out of your life to clear that up for me. What happened to the Templars is really sad. I didn't know England refused to cooperate with the Pope until after reading your post. This knowledge makes me respect England a lot more than I used to. I knew the English had a lot of back bone before but defying the Pope like that makes them real life Ultramarines. :)

In short, it's the French Game of Thrones. There be no dragons though.
Although I am surprised, I thought it isn't already spread worldwide, we already made 2 shows about those (if my memory isn't betraying me).

Edit : misreply and things

Awesome post that sums the story up quite nicely. I'll add a few details if I may:

It's absolutely true that the wealth of the "Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon" was their downfall. With its accumulation they became less and less war-like and more and more talented diplomats and traders and where highly regarded even by their "supposed enemies", the muslimic leaders. They became true cosmopolitans of the medieval world, preferring profitable solutions that benefitted all parties instead of senseless religious warfare. This was a another reason they became a thorn in the side of Rome.
When their downfall came their influence was already diminishing. The crusades were over, European influence vanished from the middle east. Their role as traders and diplomats was partially taken up by the nomadic Jews (who were not allowed to own or till land or exert a craft in Christian europe).
When trying to claim the legendary riches of the Templars King Philip IV of France and the Pope found - almost nothing. The much needed gold just wasn't there. It's not really clear if the Templars hadn't been that wealthy in the end or if their treasures are still hidden somewhere - an inspiration for treasure hunters even today.

As for claims of Satanism: There are hints that in some places especially the initiation rites had some "homosexual" components and that homosexuality was practised and tolerated in some chapters. Which is really no wonder in an all-men's club like this - and I think traces of this could be found for almost any knight's order. Don't forget that at this time the clash between the "normal people" and the sexual restrictions of the church was in full progress. Cloisters of monks often fought with overboarding homosexuality, Nun's cloisters often were brothels for the higher clergy.

Also there have been found traces of pagan imagery around various places where the Templars had stayed. Again this is not very surprising - we're talking about the early 12th to early 14th century here and pagan traditions were hard to root out despite the efforts of the church. Their influences can be found in all the great churches and cathedrals around Europe, especially in the lower and older parts. Not even to mention that many of the castles and fortresses of the time were erected on top of much older buildings that were even deeper rooted in the pagan tradition.

Some "researchers" found these traces (gay culture and pagan images) and claimed satanism, because the church officially abhorred homosexuality called the old spirits and gods demons and devils. But if that were the case most of Europe would have been satanistic at the time.

England generally went against the Pope on many matters, but it was definitely not the only country that did. In those days, a monarch was considered to have been chosen by God, so it made little sense that a King (or Queen) should be bound to the Pope. This was especially so for England, as the Pope held England in very low regard (possibly due to our Celtic/Anglo-Saxon traditions and the fact we kept going against Rome). Even King William I, the Conquer, challenged the Pope's authority of England after the Norman invasion. The Pope had consented to William's invasion of England as William was actually related to Edward the confessor, and so this was part of his claim to the throne and the Pope hoped he would help make the English better serve the Pope. Once he had bested a battle worn Harold Godwinson at the Battle of Hastings and claimed the English throne, the Pope demanded that King William start paying homage to the Pope and Rome. To this William simply replied, I am now the King of England, and the King of England bows to no other authority but God's authority (not an exact quite, but it was something very similar).

Many countries of Europe have tired to break from the Pope, the Protestant Reformation in Europe involved many countries, including Germany and France, Martin Luther, a seminal figure in the Reformation was from Germany. England was the rare exception of a nation that fully broke from Catholicism and the Pope, during the reign of King Henry VIII. This led to the Pope authorising several crusades against England, including the failed invasion by the Spanish armada during the reign of Queen Elizabeth I. It also led to England making long term enemies among the Catholic following nations of Europe, and of course, the Pope.

Thank you for the extra info. Regarding the wealth, some theorise that they hid it away, or they gave it to fellow knighthoods and Christians once the Pope began rounding up the Templars (the event took a long time, it did not just happen overnight). I remember reading in the news a few years ago, about a tower on a rock just of the coast of Spain. In this tower, they discovered the bodies of three dead Templar Knights sat around a table, along with a wealth of treasures. It included the usual, gold etc. But it also included religions relics, such as pieces of crucifixes from the Holy Land. Perhaps the Templar hid their wealth after all. It's possible that over time these hiding places were found and looted, with no regard as to who left it there.

You are right about many still holding onto their pagan traditions, Happy Halloween everyone (I know it's tomorrow)! Many nations, especially in the West still have traditions that can be traced to pagan origins, including Halloween and many elements of Christmas. There is no real proof of anything to do with Satanism. Another thing to consider is that the Church often placed evidence to make people look guilty. After all, who in those days would dare challenge the Church? In the end, I think it was nothing more than greed, King Philip IV of France was in control of the Pope and used this power to try to get the "alleged" wealth of the Templars.

Yep. The Celts believed tomorrow is the day, our world and the world of the dead is separated only by a very thin barrier. Happy Halloween!

No candy though originally, that was something the Americans added, I think. My point was that many Christians enjoy Halloween and many other pagan related events, it does not make them Satan worshippers, just as it did not back them. These were just convenient tools to use against the Templars, and anyone else who challenged the Church.

I know. Pagans don't even believe in Satan. Therefore there is no connection between enjoying pagan events and worshiping Satan.

What about candy? Do we pagans still get to have candy on Halloween? :-)

Sure, as long as you avoid the old people who give out raisins or apples instead of candy.

'merica! *rolls self off of couch and into large candy bowl*

Nope! If they were Ultramarines, defying the pope would be...





























HERESY!*BLAM!*