Thanks for the bump, I'm slow.

Unlike Vitek's objection, I don't know what to make of this. This feels disingenuous. Here's where it hit my gut – in bler's crazy game, Bookwyrm originally lied about why he chose to use his role on CSPVG. Bookwyrm turned out to be town, but I was right that he was lying about why he chose CSPVG at the time. That is how this feels (that he is fabricating it). But I also know that I could simply be in OMGUS territory. With that in mind:

@Bookwyrm – if you are scum – good for you, you yanked my chain.

If you are town….wow…I'm surprised that was your conclusion. I can see now how flubb's avatars have mainly been about roles (or generic game stuff) but that hadn't clicked, the way you describe it, as I was going through the process. I was never trying to PR hunt. I couldn't care less what flub's role is, I thought he was hinting Cylon. I guess you'll either have to take or leave it.

Thanks - I looked for a few minutes and couldn't find it. Apparently I miss the things Damnation actually says, and imagine things he didn't....

sigh.

@cristi - What's your read on Wyrm v. Damn: T/T, TW/WT, W/W, other?

It didn't seem odd to me as raw conjecture - it is a major plot device in both the mini-series and [spoiler] later in the full series as well, that was annoying as shit in the show, and would be worse here because we can't just turn the game off. ;)

We can discuss more post-game, or perhaps once a few flips/claims are on the table. I don't think it's particularly worth going into at this point. I definitely don't find it scummy - maybe even sliiiightly clearing depending on the motive.

Not having a sharp night - I swear I already wrote this question out to you but can't find it. I think I just keep pasting over things like an idiot. Putting aside your dust-up with Damnation, he's not on ZFR's wagon. What's your independent read of both ZFR, and that wagon?

You asked him his thoughts on brig mechanics, gently responded to his query about PR (though he attacked me as being too friendly, and not you for same), but you don't ask him anything meaningful, nor really commented on a read of him at all either way other than the (fair) response to trent in 161.

None of that, by itself is damning as you haven't engaged with any number of players, but...

I guess I'm a little bit curious you aren't commenting at all on the largest wagon either as a good/bad/indifferent/simplyexisting thing in the context of trying to make other wagons. It is the elephant in the room, relatively speaking, isn't it?

______

Where I'm at:

>randtown reads, won't vote (D1) period (no order):
Joe
Vitek
HSL
Trent

Null, will likely sort through play later. Highly unlikely to vote in current gamestate:
cristi
Wyrm
fraknation

________

D1 considerations....

Null/unsorted, in POE (in order):
flub
ele
rabbit

<randtown, preferred vote:
SPF
zfr


unvote SPF
vote ZFR

I agree with this.

I'll provide a "who I will vote" list when I'm done.

;-p

I disagree. Meta is useful. Of course players can be aware of their meta and (attempt to) change it. Consistently strong players typically can. But for the most part, we are creatures of habit and I think is it often useful in mafia. (Big shocker, right? <sarcasm>)

@bler- just got through what I assume is most of what you asked....will get to when I'm fully caught up

Sorry, to hear that. And thankful the prognosis is good.

Oho! Why do you think all this is scummy? (I read that last action for comedy value, personally, since rabbit has said she's wary of brigging on D1 and it's in response to a serious-joke by Damn).

If you think Wyrm and I are scummy, what do you make of my case? If we're both on the list, isn't voting him a good move to see what happens? (For example, I might leap off the wagon at L-3 until "he explains himself" then leap back on again :P ) Or you could vote me and see who jumps?

I presume you read ZFR as the stronger scum, but unless the ZFR case sprouts wings somehow I can't get behind that in good conscience.

@Damnation, Joe, thoughts? Who could you lunch at this point?

Yes I know you find me suspect, but I wasn't counting wild guesses or POE....!

I could lynch Wyrm or SPF at this point and would be happy to pressure Vitek. I'm consciously not using brig votes on D1, don't start on that again wyrm :P

{Out of game: I am really enjoying this game. I love the mix of people and players and styles, re-reading frequently makes me laugh out loud. Here's to a good one!}

Slightly off topic, but maybe saying it will help the affect. Every time someone uses the word "toaster" to refer to mafia it reminds me of this:
Toast! It makes it really hard to focus on the argument.

This. The tone feels so serious and then right in the midst a goat joke.

Drifting off, got to call it quits.

Now, finally getting to your question. I'm inline with what you said. My take is this is T/W. When I first read Dammation's grill on ZFR and Wyrm's initial response, I mostly agreed with Wyrm because the grill felt overly harsh. But the longer the back-and-forth continued, the more Damnation's side felt better and Wyrm's less. If the wagons were Wyrm and Damnation....I'd go with Wyrm. My OMGUS concern on wyrm still lingers. I am OK with the ZFR lynch and could go SPF. Both are in my POE but I don't see what you and Vitek see on SPR.
My only real ping was the ZFR vote felt off

@trent Hope everything goes well for your daughter and grandchild.
@SPF I'm male. You can use he/him when referring to me. Also, other than cristi who are the females here? Just so I can pick my pronouns properly.

Since Damnation misunderstood 3-4 of my sentences I wondered if it's because my semantics are really that bad and my posts are ambiguous. So I went back and reread all my posts and found this. Nothing more to it.

But the second sentence actually puts my mind at ease. I didn't know how detrimental for town was a mislynch on D1. Good to know it's not a game killer.

What's LHF? From the context I understand it to mean "lynch for doing newbie things" but I can't find the abbreviation on mafia wiki.
Any way, why would it make it HARDER to justify a vote later on? scum!X votes for Newb. Newb flips town. X has an easy excuse: "But I voted for him because he was acting so scummy! Turns out it was just newbie mistakes".

I don't remember exactly. I view these forums also while at work during free time and sometimes have to get back to something else.

If this is the case, why are you still voting for flub?

Maybe I went the wrong about it, but I never attempted to prove I'm townie. As I explained before, I meant to show that some actions are not scum indicative. And NOT that they necessarily make you town.

P1: X is doing A, therefore X must be scum.
P2: Not necessarilly. Y, who was town, also did A in a previous game.

In the above, P2 isn't trying to prove that X is town! Just wants to show that A is not scum-indicative.

The role fishing and the flip flop on avatars. And....

(emphasis added)

Joe's argument is terrible.....ironic :/

You may move here but only if you don't mind sleeping in the cage with my pet procupine.
Or it could be with flub but I don't even bother to offer it over the porcupine.

For the last page EB and CG (yes, you are now all going to be just abbreviations :-)) get some town points and BW gets few scum points.
Then I took at previous BW's town play and took those points from him again.
Can anyone point me to a game where BW was aifam/mucs?

Littlerabbit gets huge amount of scum points for textbook role-fishing.
HSL small amount of bad points for posting spoilers.

Preferred for best lynch or you think they are mafia?
Together or one only of them?
If both mafia what is your take on SPF actions against ZFR? Buddy trying to throw the other under the bus?

Also, yeah, what's LHF?

You mean like you did when we turned attention your way? ;-)

Joke it may be but it pointed me towards mafia in the past.

Not searching for mafia.


Never said it does equal and also never asked you to keep spredsheets.
I had one some notes in like 3 or 4 games I have played tops.

The thing is I don't just see much attempts in your posts to solve anything. You voted bler (OK, you are not going to be all abbreviated. I hate it already) for buddying up/distancing with ele and then abandoned it. What's your take on bler and ele now, anyway?
Then said trent convinced you about ZFR but what striked my as most peculiar was when he convinced (after ZFR accrued 2 other votes). When pointed out you jumped off but clearly stating you are ready to get back anytime it is necessary.
I give you it is early so it was minor thing but to me it added up with other things.


What's your current scumteam currently? Not 3 most suspicious player but who do you expect to be mafia team together?


OK, OK, you got me, I was trying to be nice to you, you big goof.
It was that late Joe's game where we played older people in some sort of resort? We all had clues about others and there was something with gems going on. It was right after the other one where you were mafia and got flawless victory.

You spend most of the time defending yourself so let me instead ask you about your suspects.
Is bler still your number 1? If so why? Do you see him as mafia orchestrating your mislynch?
Who else?
How do you feel about other people that draw more suspicion?

@everyone; I love meta. I once built castle out of it and then ate it if some ice cream.

To be more serious, I really always liked it but I know some people don't and I never saw any side as scummy. Just different approach.

Being out of the loop for several years made meta-reads much less useful, though, I admit that. :-)

I think that's a goal every player of mafia should strive to achieve.

90% that's nice very high, almost infallible, number. I like that. :-)
In any words. I hope evyrthing will work out the best way it can.


I see. But you were 18 when you started playing mafia here, right?
What's next? Learning that flub is not 108? Gosh, I hope not.

Are you me?


Ele, rabbit and our glorious mod.



Hope I didnt screw any formatting here. Sorry in advance.

Yes, bler.

I've got other suspects, but it's mostly for meta reasons and/or gut feelings. If someone put a gun to my head and asked for a top 3 scum it'd be bler, SPF for a meta reason I'd rather not mention, and HSL because his style of questioning seems scummy to me (though I really can't put my finger on why).

Damnation I see as town; I don't see him questioning me the way he did and reacting to my answers if he were mafia.

Littlerabbit seemed role-fishing, which according to people here is scummy? I don't know.
When I asked about roles Bookwyrm gave me an answer instead of going "stop role-fishing!" Is it because he's mafia? Or genuinely trying to answer a newb question? Before the previous game started I asked him lots of mafia questions in chat, so he could simply be answering a question from an inexperienced player. There is also something else that struck me about Bookwyrm, making him townie, but again can't put my finger on it now.

That's pretty much it. Not much, I know but I don't think I have more on D1.