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General discussionGOG Mafia #75 - Harry Potter vs Brokol in the Bizarro Pokemon World(2543 posts)(2543 posts)
(2543 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 20, 2022
@Gogtrial: thank you for input. At least now it clearer, where you stand.

You know, what (in part) makes me want to lynch ettac? Not just him looking scummy on his own, but the way you seem to suspect nearly everyone else way more than ettac. It's like ettac is an exception to you. Yet you said, ettac on his own looks somewhat scummy.

Or, in other words, you have thrown suspicious gaze on everyone voting ettac, but haven't tried to apply your "Gogtrial's case" on ettac himself to see if maybe there is something. Maybe there is a reason ettac is gaining votes and attention. You know? Maybe I am a broken record, but for two townies, you get along too well, too long now.

So, I want to know why. Either your flip, or ettac's.

We are still waiting for ettac's input, so maybe there is something there.
Posted May 20, 2022
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Dessimu: @ettac: I understand this is worth nothing now, but my balls are pretty average and as scum, I just would not have voted Lift at all D2. And you are trying to measure how likely was it for scum!Dess to do a distancing gamble from Lift, by riding a scum wagon against a Town wagon. It's a bit to extreme, no?
Not if you didn't expect the wagon to take off. Your D2 vote wasn't exactly backed by much (not that many D2 wagons would be). Scum sitting on a scum wagon while town lunches town is ideal actually. I dunno how compelling I find it, Maybe you are town. If you are scum, you certainly deserve an award for how cool you seemed when Lift got to L-2.

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dedoporno: OK, claiming order (from first to last):

1. Catte
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JoeSapphire:
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ettac cigam si eman ym: I'm going to bed,
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JoeSapphire:
I was waiting for others to chime in. Did we elect Dedo president of stumps without me noticing? And I was waiting for a clarification on your post too. None of that happened so I went to bed.

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JoeSapphire: i'd point out that deadline's in 12 and a half hours but I wouldn't want to accidentally contribute something useless so I won't
Good good.

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gogtrial34987: Explain your lack of claim!
I was waiting for anyone else to turn up and say “yes yes, I agree”.

As alluded to on D4, I am Harry Potter, VT.

More to come.
Posted May 20, 2022
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Cadaver747: Treeviver (no known alias):
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Treeviver

...

So why Book is not a "Treeviver" (modified or not) but a "Stumper" since every other mentioned roles is in the Mafia wikia anyway?
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gogtrial34987: Good find! A role yogsloth wasn't aware of?
The difference in name doesn't set off any warning bells to me, but this does:

Use & Balance

A Treeviver can bring a strong voice back into the game. Treevivers should be X-shot to avoid just being able to turn every factional kill to a treestump.
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gogtrial34987:
I have no idea how you managed to include Yogs in my theory that Book could be a lying Mafia with Stump curse attached to his hammer and how every NKed Town player is back to life probably because of the same curse Mafia carries over to their victims.

Yogs did good at chasing Book for his role actually.

The difference is name as in - the role I've never heard before - makes a big difference to me personally.

P.S. I also don't understand as to why Dedo should apologize to Joe about *wasting Town time on Lift* - I'm dead and I'm practically elsewhere yet I was annoyed as hell.

From Mafiascum wiki:

"A confirmed scum treestump's best option is to generally be annoying, trollish, spam up the game thread, etc.; making it hard for people to play will make it hard for them to scumhunt."

And I knew it even before visiting the page.
Posted May 20, 2022
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gogtrial34987: I am underwhelmed.
I was underwhelmed by the amount of activity last night. We can’t all be whelmed all of the time.
You didn’t think I’d spent the whole time I was away writing some epic that I just couldn’t post until thursday night, right? I’m not a fast writer, there’s only so much homework I can fit into one evening. I asked for the extensions so I wasn’t coming back into the game hours before deadline.

I think we have Dessimu, Yogs and Joe as scum. Or there are only two left, in which case it’s a bit harder to deduce exactly who.

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dedoporno: @Joe Why the hell do you keep wasting time with a confirmed scum and mud the waters considering his writings?! This is utterly useless.
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gogtrial34987: Could you apologize to Joe for this?
The thing is, Dedo has a point and any badness in the way he phrased it is outweighed by Joe’s sulking anyway.
Posted May 20, 2022
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ettac cigam si eman ym: Not if you didn't expect the wagon to take off. Your D2 vote wasn't exactly backed by much (not that many D2 wagons would be). Scum sitting on a scum wagon while town lunches town is ideal actually. I dunno how compelling I find it, Maybe you are town. If you are scum, you certainly deserve an award for how cool you seemed when Lift got to L-2.
So, you are still clinging to the less likely scenario. Ettac, bear in mind that attention from Lifthrasil's wagon was diverted by Gogtrial's big case on Micro. Had he not done this, maybe we would have had Lift lynched D3.

Was it Bookwyrm that said "Lift was basically a dead man walking and on a chopping block way before D3"? Lets assume Book is Town. So, if it was clear to a townie, it should have been clear to scum too. This fact being clear, don't you think scum could come up with plan to sacrifice Lift D4 in order to get town points, like Bucktooth pondered? Does it not appear that Gogtrial is a "clearly Town" for correcting his mistake of leading Micro's wagon, by leading a scum wagon? Basically, this one fact is what throws the biggest and undeniable doubt about Gogtrial's alignment now.

You imply scum!me played a looooong game with scum!Lift. But it is so backwards... And you have a much more likely alternative, where Gogtrial was influently involved in Lift's lynch, managed to correct his Micro mistake, yet you don't consider that.

Are you just focused on me because I voted you and Gogtrial did not? You scum list is basically the same as Gogtrial's. Just... I don't know. I don't understand this connection between you two.
Posted May 20, 2022
5 hours
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20220520T2000&p0=78&font=cursive
Posted May 20, 2022
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Dessimu: You know, what (in part) makes me want to lynch ettac? Not just him looking scummy on his own, but the way you seem to suspect nearly everyone else way more than ettac. It's like ettac is an exception to you.
"Nearly everyone else", except bucktooth, and until yesterday, you and Joe. While Book was about on par with catte.

You see me distracting from catte wagons. I see you distracting from Lift's wagon. Only one of those is certain scum.

What scares me is the idea that you scumread catte because of me, and that that makes me scumread you, and that there's a (small) chance we're all town.

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Dessimu: Or, in other words, you have thrown suspicious gaze on everyone voting ettac
"Everyone" being you and yogs. And just now Joe.
(Or, if you're talking about D3, Cadaver at the end there? I think I was still a bit on him at D4-start, until I finally gained enough distance to see what he was doing, and stopped caring for the details.)
What do you make of Joe's vote? Why haven't you joined him on catte?

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Dessimu: but haven't tried to apply your "Gogtrial's case" on ettac himself to see if maybe there is something. Maybe there is a reason ettac is gaining votes and attention. You know?
There is just very little catte there to question, and what there is, is mostly monopolized by you and yogs. I did ask you several times for your case on catte beyond lack of activity and the way you saw me defending him. You only gave a full case yesterday, and then other developments rather sucked up more attention. (Huh. That Bookwyrm claim did follow very shortly after your case on catte, didn't it?)

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gogtrial34987: Good find! A role yogsloth wasn't aware of?
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Cadaver747: I have no idea how you managed to include Yogs in my theory
Look at yogs' reaction to Book's claim.
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yogsloth: This is not any sort of actual forum mafia role

This is a ZFR role
Posted May 20, 2022
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gogtrial34987: Look at yogs' reaction to Book's claim.
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yogsloth: This is not any sort of actual forum mafia role

This is a ZFR role
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gogtrial34987:
Here it is and I quote the whole post from Yogs. Everything in it seems reasonable.
Mafia or not, Yogs is a reasonable man asking reasonable questions. I would marry him if I could [that last part was a joke]

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yogsloth: This is not any sort of actual forum mafia role

This is a ZFR role

There has to be some mechanic that explains all the treestumps, so here we are

I'm just speechless

but time to think like a ZFR what this even means

so Town has watcher, tracker

Mafia has JOAT, roleblocker (assumed), follower (assuming town dessimu voyeur claim) (yes follower is basically rolecop, that's a mafia role)

I'm just calling it now - there's no cop; there's no doctor, no vig (no this is not role fishing, get off my ass)

it's a big pile of weak-ass roles for town and a legion of vanillas

What's the balancing mechanic here
Posted May 20, 2022
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Cadaver747:
Yogs says "This is not any sort of actual forum mafia role ".
You find the actual forum mafia role.
Nothing implied by it, other than that the role is apparently super obscure that yogs wasn't aware of it.
Posted May 20, 2022
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Dessimu: So, you are still clinging to the less likely scenario. Ettac, bear in mind that attention from Lifthrasil's wagon was diverted by Gogtrial's big case on Micro. Had he not done this, maybe we would have had Lift lynched D3.
The same could be said of yours and yog’s pile on me, that certainly distracted from Lift and it came first.

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Dessimu: Was it Bookwyrm that said "Lift was basically a dead man walking and on a chopping block way before D3"? Lets assume Book is Town. So, if it was clear to a townie, it should have been clear to scum too. This fact being clear, don't you think scum could come up with plan to sacrifice Lift D4 in order to get town points, like Bucktooth pondered? Does it not appear that Gogtrial is a "clearly Town" for correcting his mistake of leading Micro's wagon, by leading a scum wagon? Basically, this one fact is what throws the biggest and undeniable doubt about Gogtrial's alignment now.

You imply scum!me played a looooong game with scum!Lift. But it is so backwards... And you have a much more likely alternative, where Gogtrial was influently involved in Lift's lynch, managed to correct his Micro mistake, yet you don't consider that.

Are you just focused on me because I voted you and Gogtrial did not? You scum list is basically the same as Gogtrial's. Just... I don't know. I don't understand this connection between you two.
I started focusing on your because of the circumstances of your vote and I guess gogtrial saw that too. Yes, it’s possible that the scum decided to bus Lift from the start of D4, but I kind of would have expected that to go with a bit less friction if it was the plan. It took up to an hour before the deadline to get Lift lunched so I think the majority of players on his wagon were probably town.
Posted May 20, 2022
Vote Count

catte 1 - Joe(1891)

Not voting:
Catte, Dessimu, bucktooth, Bookwyrm, yogsloth, gogtrial

7 players. Takes 4 to lynch.
catte is closest at L-3

D5 timer:
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20220520T2000&p0=78&font=cursive
Posted May 20, 2022
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Cadaver747: Every NKed Town player was revived as Stump. Micro was hammered by Book (Catte's wagon was at L-2, hammer was not possible anyway), Lift was hammered by Book but his post was posted just a mere seconds after Catte's vote on Lift and Book post does not look like a hammer to me, more like it's either Lift or Dess are scum, or both even, in my opinion Book was not going to hammer Lift, it was an accident or it looked like an accident at least.
The one single thing that makes Bookwyrm's claim of beeing the reason why stumps are happening believable, is the fact that Carradice and Pooka were not hammered by Book and they are dead. While Micro and Lift were lynched and hammered by Book, and returned as stumps. Plus, no one came out saying "Book is lying". So, yeah, I believe he is the reason.

I am just not sure about night kills. If Lynches require Book to hammer, shouldn't nightkills require Book to do the killing to make stumps? On top of that, if my idea that scum already hatched a plan of lynching Lift after Lift having been on a lynch wagon D2, the following would make sense:
having to lynch Lift, it still can help if he is alive stump afterwards, and scum!Book could make it happen. How would it look like if three lynched townies are dead, but lynched Lift, hammered by Book, is alive? Book would possibly have to claim at some point in game, so this would make him look scummy Stumper. But now there is a contradiction - Book has town!Micro and scum!Lift under his power. Much safer to claim his role and even helpful to divert his possible lynch away. If scum!Book is not a suspect, more chance for townies to lynch a townie.

Not just that, but Gogtrial has been playing like a Command Center for a third Day now. He is in the same contradicted situation as Book. Gogtrial lead a town wagon, lead a scum wagon.

Maybe it can help to check how much Lifthrasil disagreed with Gogtrial specifically about his lynch. To compare Lift's reactions, compare them to how Lift reacted to me, leading his wagon D2.

In my tiny mind, scum team consists of Ettac, Gogtrial and Bookwyrm.
Posted May 20, 2022
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gogtrial34987: Yogs says "This is not any sort of actual forum mafia role ".
You find the actual forum mafia role.
Nothing implied by it, other than that the role is apparently super obscure that yogs wasn't aware of it.
There is no "Stumper" role in Mafiascum wiki. Yogs noticed it. And I mentioned the very same as to why the heck ZFR would not name Book simply as Treeviver instead of "Stumper" since Dedo and Lift are called JOATs anyway.
.
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gogtrial34987: A role yogsloth wasn't aware of?
I don't know then what you meant by that. Last time I checked no one was aware of it, no? Yogs was the only player who pointed it out.
Posted May 20, 2022
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gogtrial34987: A role yogsloth wasn't aware of?
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Cadaver747: I don't know then what you meant by that. Last time I checked no one was aware of it, no? Yogs was the only player who pointed it out.
Yogs plays a ton of mafia games on mafiauniverse - probably more than the rest of us combined here on gog. He's been the gog champion twice. He has so much experience, that I assume that there are very few mafia roles that he has never seen.

Yet, he did not recognize the role as Bookwyrm described it. He did not immediately go, "oh, you mean you're a treeviver?" - no, he went "that role doesn't exist; ZFR invented something weird".
Posted May 20, 2022
Ok, so now we're waiting for yogs to come online and claim. Seeing as he didn't post between me going to bed last night and claiming today, it looks like I didn't hold up much in the grand scheme of things.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #75 - Harry Potter vs Brokol in the Bizarro Pokemon World(2543 posts)(2543 posts)
(2543 posts)