I feel like you are shooting scum labels left and right now. With too much certainty for a townie.

I want to ISO Joe first but I'm still at work so I only have limited time windows to pop in and try to keep up-to-date.


What would your suggestion would be?

I am curious... You had the "of course" moment, claim to have figured out whole scum team. And basically, you are once again rallying everyone to follow your lead. The question I have, is if you are so very very certain of your scum list, why don't you vote? If you vote indeed scum, other scum are unlikely to join the wagon, townies might after some considerations, yada yada. Why are did you throw out this massive "gotcha" and leave the voting to others? I see no harm in you following up on your own majestic ideas.

Got it.

Stump Jedi council decides order

which I already said

Some players mused that it's MYLO stage (4 Mafia players in total instead of 3 Mafia players in total - 3 alive Mafia players at present)
So a mass-claim is a must since it could be our last last chance to win the game.

Buck - Town!Vanilla (claimed)
Dess - Town!Voyeur (claimed)
Book - Town!Stumper (claimed)
Ettac - ???
Joe - ???
Yogs - ???
Gogtrial - ???

[if I missed something - kindly let me know at once]

So it's only 4 players left and in my opinion it does not matter who claim the first (the order).
I personally think that mass-claim should NOT be performed without the agreement from those 4 players, especially given that Ettac is not with us yet.

If you think that ordering is SO important and that you can trust only confirmed dead players, I'm ok to delegate that responsibility to Dedo.

Hey, just got in. Expect several posts from me this evening doing so retrospective stuff and responding to posts made while I was away.

I have my doubts, yes. There is a good chance that I'm making a big mistake so I'd rather wait for a while. The last thing I want is to inadvertently help the Mafia.

I don't know how much time I'll manage to scrounge together for the game tonight. Real Life just dropped hard.
I'll definitely be around tomorrow morning and EoD.

Just to answer this

I don't think gogtrial's series of "gotcha part two" posts are scummy in a vacuum, just not helpful to town at this moment regardless of alignment

Much thank!

I can't imagine that. I literally can't imagine having that much time to devote to the game. That sounds horrendous.

You were maybe #1 on D3, but lots of stuff Dessimu did on D4 moved him into the lead. I don’t think it’s that I’ve not explained, I think it’s that there aren’t as many reasons.

That's where I am with Dess. Part of my scum-read of you is based on interactions with Dessimu.

Well doggedly sitting on my wagon until EoD4 with Dess fits the established pattern. My guess at that point is that if there are four of them they were trying to run out the clock.

Good questions! Well we obviously know now that there was no coaching on Cadaver’s part, but it doesn’t make Dessimu less opportunistic in my eyes. Dessimu went from ignoring me to declaring me scum based mostly on prior inactivity and a couple of weird misunderstandings of things like my early vote on Joe.

My current read on Dessimu is based heavily on the events of D4 but I still need to go back and iso Lift, Dessimu and Yogs which is what I plan to do after writing this big catchup post.

By the way, you make reference to post #1772 which at the time of your writing was in the future. Which post did you mean? Either way, my D3 scum reads of both of them have been eclipsed by the events of D4 which I will recap when I iso Dess.

Don’t blame them, it was pretty much just me.

Just to be clear, it was because I saw your case as being BS, not the fact you voted for me. Both yours and Yog’s votes looked like an attempt to find the easiest wagon to push.

Way to bury the lede!

Ok. It’s too weird to be false. It doesn’t really clarify your alignment but I can’t see how anyone could falseclaim something like this. If Bookwyrm wasn’t really the reason for the stumps he should fear being counterclaimed too much to try it.

It’s a waste of time to even try and think about it. Both cups have iocaine powder in.

Ok. So I guess Joe is scum? So, Dess, Yogs and Joe? Joe, who are your buddies? Wiggle your eyebrows twice for yes and thrice for no.

The Lift questioning actually makes sense if Joe is scum. It’s a good way to create WIFOM and sow FUD.

I agree that a town stump should decide the order. While not infallible, we at least know they don't have an anti-town agenda.

I'm going through Joe's posts. Halfway done. I'll probably pause for a bit to have dinner and watch some Survivor and then I'll finish and report back.

Dessimu
D1:

Casual posts before #29
#29 – RVS vote for viper?
#68 – “breadcrumb” – I get the allusion but it’s very vague, could suggest almost any investigative role. There’s nothing to specifically suggest voyeur.
#91 – Reply to Carradice about Yogs.
Slightly strange to suggest Carradice has a “yogsloth obsession”, to me it just reads like greeting a player Carradice hasn’t played with in a while. If Dess and yogs are buddies it could explain the touchiness on Dessimu’s part.
#123 – Vote for Joe, no strong “raisins” given. Suggests both Joe and Cadaver are scum, Joe mostly for the whyquicktopicwhy thing and lack of content to posts. Interestingly, one of Dessimu’s reasons for voting me later on was regarding me voting for Joe regarding the “whyquicktopicwhy” thing and what he perceived as a lack of raisins on my part. When Dessimu first voted for me, my vote for Joe seemed like a strange thing to focus on. Taken with this as context it looks even weirder for him to have fixated on it given that his reasons were the same as mine.
#79, #89, #91 – Exchange with me about phrase “bated breath”. This may be my only direct interaction with Dessimu before D3. :S
Lots of back and forth with Carradice after that, nothing that jumps out. I think I’ll post this and then do D2.

EBWOP: Last three post numbers should be #179, #189 and #191.

D2:
#522 – This post is really interesting. Seems to be the start of Dessimu’s D2 case against Yogs. He notes that Lift’s suspect list is close to Cadaver’s but doesn’t really explain why that is noteworthy. Interestingly, Lift’s first two votes are for Yogs and Joe. I’ve already noted links between those two and Dessimu so it’s interesting to see that they were the first two votes of a confirmed scum.
@all: Anyone think scum!Lift would vote for buddies early on as a potential distancing move, or is it a bit too obvious?
And given the relatively weak case being made by Dessimu, is this just meant to be a bit of distance?
#529 – Votes for Lift, reasoning being “His votes for me are based on reasons too obvious, allegedly "slips" that are just too dumb for mafia to make.”. So uh… voting for the person who voted for you? Isn’t that what you accused me of Dess? :P
The case Dessimu makes against Lift isn’t very strong, perhaps intentionally, however in #536 HSL joins the wagon making a much longer and stronger case. In defence of his lack of participation in Lift’s D4 wagon Dessimu has claimed his place on Lift’s D2 wagon makes him unlikely scum, but I think the D2 wagon is NAI. Dessimu placed his vote without a strong case and could have been surprised when it took off at all.
______

Holy shit D2 is wordy, that and being busy IRL is how I managed to completely drop the ball.
______
Ok, so the Lift wagon gets to L-3, tied with Pooka. In #699 Micro votes for Pooka, pushing Pooka into the lead. I don’t think scum!Dessimu would be worried enough at that point to feel the need to get off Lift’s wagon.
______
#760 – Micro switches to Lift, putting him at L-2.
#797 – Dedo votes for Pooka bringing him to L-2.

Would we expect scum!Dessimu get cold feet here and jump off the wagon? Dessimu posts several times between Micro’s switch and Dedo’s vote.
#805 – Buck switches from Lift to the Pooka wagon, tipping the scales firmly in favour of Pooka’s lunch.
#829 – Joe turns back up after an absence and hammers Pooka a few posts later.
If Dess is scum, it was a ballsy play to stick with Lift like that, but I suppose he might have been wary of looking bad if he switched.
@all: Does Dess seem ballsy enough that scum!Dess wouldn’t freak out when the Lift wagon took off? The original vote was backed up fairly weakly, but he may have felt trapped once the other votes came in.

I have to say, Buck swooping in to change the balance from 5 and 5 to 4 and 6 doesn’t look great, nor Joe’s late arrival and (slightly) early hammer. I’ve been lightly town-reading Buck lately but I’m wondering about that now.