Really? That was brought up quite a few times. I can't go back to check but it's likely at least one of the posts you referred to in your large batches contained something about it.

I'm sorry, I'm not totally sure which question that is, I assume it's about Joe and Yog's correlation. To be honest I don't really have idea what that would mean. I'm going off memory and I don't even remember what Joe's stance about Yog other than generally giving him the benefit of the doubt. The only immediate comfortable correlations I can think tight now are:

* On Carradice scum flip - ZFR has to be Town
* On Yog scum flip - Lift has to be Town

True, you don't and it can be either but is still something to consider when and if it happens.

You keep bringing up that I voted you "over a disagreement on rules" even after explaining multiple times that this was not the case. Already went over this with more than one person.

Disgreement over rules was never a reason I voted you. But whatever.

Can you show me that collection of posts when I was rude to you? While you were trying to keep the game civil? I'm genuinely curious because I don't think I were rude.

ZFR has been playing as he always does, he plays almost the same as Town or Scum. I haven't put him in my Town Core because of this and have kept him as neutral.

He has been pushing for Carradice since the Scene incident and I would find it hard to believe he would do so as Scum. At that point the only other person who had any real suspicion still of Carradice was me (I could be wrong on that, I'm going off of memory). So for me if Carradice flips Scum ZFR would definitely be moved to my Town Core.

re:rules: AFAIR, the take I offered on the rules was considered "scummy". Also the adjective "obtuse" appeared eventually.

Well, it must be a matter of points of view and degrees. From my point of view, it has been:


Disagreement over the impact of a rule => start being called scummy; later, being asked if I was trying to be obtuse.

Insisting that a disagreement over rules made no sense => being replied that I should assume your posts are insane (or something like that) and no need to pester you anymore (or something to the same effect)

A friendly post with a very light humouristic tone (featuring a variation of John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance) => being asked to stop that because it was annoying :-(

A post with a joke addressed directly to you, playing on how some promised research had not happened => Complains, later, when the question was rephrased, a refusal to answer, while others got their answers.

A remark on how others got their answers, but not me, even when rephrasing (not that the original post was insulting) => My post being mocked in a communication to a third party.


So you do not want to call it rude. Fine enough, although I would not have used the word obtuse. Never mind, it was decidedly less than nice, anyway.

Communication breackdown?. Possibly. Apparently that is what happened with Joe. I praised the originality of the roles in his game and he mistook it by criticism.


The takeaway: It is OK to disagree. It is OK to tunnel, if that is what you really want to do. However, tere is no need to take things the wrong way. That said, the wrong move on my part seems to have kept trying to discuss, and to make things lighter, when there were no indications of it being productive.

...

OK, I apologize for "obtuse", but seriously you consider it rude because I called your take on X as "scummy" in a game of Mafia???

It's Mafia. People's actions are going to be called scummy for a variety of reasons. There are at least 3 scum among us. Yes, I'm on the lookout for them, yes I'm going to call people's actions "scummy" and yes quite often I'm going to be wrong about it, because Town often act in a way that other Town perceive as scummy. I'm not going to stop calling people scummy because they might take it as rude.

As for the "obtuse" and the other points, I apologize, but they're really all way below the level of rudeness seen in Mafia, and I really don't think they particularly stand out as "rude" compared to other posts that have been made this game.

No. Of course not. I am fine with scummy, the whole game goes about this. I do not think that I have even mentioned it. On the contrary, I just said that tunnelling is OK if you really want to (it does not mean that I agree to its logic or that I do not find it scummy, but that is a different story).

So, I reckon that humour can be difficult to get across, and sometimes it is a risky proposition. Even if they intend to be good-natured jokes.

(pause to avoid the post apear as edited)

Apology accepted. Allow me to apology on my part as well if any of the jokes rubbed you the wrong way.

Agreed that "obtuse" is not that bad, compared to the worst said in a heated exchange that started bad and ended worse, despite the efforts of our brave mod.

OK but earlier you said

yet you're still OK with lynching him which appears to be inferred here:

How so?

Vote yoglsoth. Wake up, sheeple.

So you said you'd be up to lynching Carradice D3 but not toDay and if this changes things, how does it change them?
Lynch him now, not lynch him at all, something else?

Leaning Town for me is not the same as me saying I will not vote someone because I think they’re Town. Here’s how I do my rating scale

1. I believe someone is Town and I will not vote them

2. Leaning Town is someone I’m not actively looking at and would be hard pressed to vote

3. Neutral is someone I have trouble reading or someone that has not done anything to make me think they are Town or Scum.

4. Leaning Scum is someone I think has a good chance of being scum and am watching what they say and or do.

5. I believe someone is Scum and should be biting them

Anyone in the leaning category or neutral spot will fluctuate up or down throughout the day depending on what they say and or do in relation to people I consider Town or Scum or what my gut tells me. I probably play more off of gut than anything, I can’t seem to be as analytical as others.

As for ZFR I like his thought process and agree with most of what he’s saying. My gut tells me to be cautious though because ZFR could be playing a deep wolf game and bussing a scum partner after Scene’s flip to earn massive Town cred, although I highly doubt this is the case because there’s been way too much strife between ZFR and Carradice that scum wouldn’t do if bussing because it looks like distancing.

I still say after doing an ISO of Carradice from Day 1 they were overly defensive and felt off, and they haven’t done much to change that opinion on Day 2. I think they are a good lynch for today.

Is it weird, that I'm starting to get the impression this game is some kind of psychological study project? The other games I read (63-67) read differently to me. Or maybe that's just me.

Well, all that reading didn't really help all that much. Let's see:

I'm probably doing this wrong, but at this point I would vote:

09. Carradice (Ahmad ibn Fadlan)
02. Lifthrasil (Lathif ben Rasil)
07. dedoporno (Faraam Nazari)

I still don't believe Carradice didn't read the PM.
TownCarradice might say he didn't to stirr up conversation, but his tone this game seems more like MafiaCarradice to me. I don't know.
MafiaCarradice might see it as an opportunity to make a good play.
What I mean:
I'm wondering if Carradice and Lift are a Mafia together.
Carradice lying about not reading the PM, then bringing the "opportunistic fellows and jumpy scum" (post 262/275) argument, stating those are the ones I want to lynch first. (Good thing Lift wasn't jumpy? But then again, there is 24/7-mafia-chat.) Dedo hadn't even voted for Carradice at this point.
And then Lift joins in (266) painting dedo's questions as "possible angry mafia partner". Yes, he stated it was only for completeness sake in 276. But it probably doesn't hurt to put ideas out there, something might stick? Especially since he once again mentions dedo as Mafia partner for Carradice in 435, if Carradice flips Mafia.
And now I just got to the point where dedo mentions the possibility himself (436).
Another possibility could be MafiaLift and MafiaDedo trying to use Carradice "didn't read my PM" as an opportunity, but that doesn't make much sense too me, because they are painting each other as Mafia, unless that's the point? Give one of them the "if that one flips Mafia the other one probably isn't"-clear? Does such a thing even exist?

I don't know if any of this is actually making any sense.

Not sure how
04. ZFR (Khaled al Adeeb)
would fit into all this though.

I still think
12. GameRager/yogsloth (Achmed ibn Hamam)
might be Mafia, but I thought that about SPF/SMFR too.

Neutral:
08. Vitek (Basil ibn Layth)

Neutral, but maybe need to look closer some time tomorrow:
05. Microfish_1 (Mohamed Salem)
11. JoeSapphire (Abd-allah al Jameel)
10. trentonlf (Faris al Adham)

I will look at posts/questions directed at me tomorrow. I need a break.

Random stuff:
Can't you do that by yourself?

? Why point that out?


(underline mine)
Is there such a thing as faction fishing? Is this what you did there?

I've been afk all day and still have no time. Therefore only a reply to the last post: no. Not directly fishing, just teasing with the slight possibility that it might have been a slip.

I'll reply to the rest of you tomorrow.

OK, I did a reread on Carradice. I wanted to see if I'm tunneling too much, but the more I look at it, the scummier it looks.

For starters, please look at this. This is his claim, just before the Day ended. With around an hour to go (we know the time from SPF's post #549 and Pooka's #551)

So, the Day is almost over. Imagine yourself a Townie with an important Role. How would you claim? Here is how Carradice did it.

First he makes a post 540, where he doesn't claim but posts in riddle: "those who were with me in the last three games, do you remember the alignments and roles that I was getting? This one was long due..."

Then he makes another post #542 with just 3 words: "In any case..."

Then he finally claims Cop post #544.

Do you see yourself doing that? Playing around and asking riddles when you have to claim an important PR and time is running out?

But that's not all, looking at the first posts he writes that "this one was long due". How does that make sense for a Cop?
For reference, his three previous roles were: Town JOAT, Neutral pseudo-"Jester" (I don't remember what the role was called, but it involved dying the same way as his sister gogtrial, which made it easy to win the Jester way by getting them both quickly lynched) and a Mafia Redirector.

How does that make Cop long due?
When roulette lands black 3 times in a row, then red is long due. When you get exciting roles 3 times in a row then, just like SPF reasoned in 543, Vanilla is long due. I don't see the Cop making sense.

My hypothesis is that Carradice didn't know what best to claim and cosidered going Vanilla first, then changed his mind for Cop either hoping to have it accepted or getting the real Cop counterclaim, so his lynch at least has some meaning.

@everyone, I know we were caught up in the heat of the moment back then, and that we tend to accept PR claims, but looking at it back now with a clear mind, can you see if the claim makes sense?

Looking at D2

First, Aside from my RVS vote on gogtrial, I made a serious vote on Joe #129, so "he never voted for anyone else" is false. But that's just a minor point...

The main point is that this whole "now this, now that" feels like an attempt to discredit my reasons. Whether you agree with my reasons or not, I gave them, and if you don't like them then fair enough, but this post is purposely written in a way to make it seem that the reasons are just random whims.
I *never* voted him because "he forgot I was actually voting for him"
I *never* voted him because "he says he is a cop". Quite the opposite, I unvoted him when he claimed Cop and only voted when scene's flip threw doubt on it.
I didn't vote him because of disagreement over rules - that point was explained already multiple times in D1 and was caused by the ambiguity of the time he read his PM".
And voting him for not reading PM was a valid reason that was picked on by multiple players.

Yet this list tries to show my voting reasons as a list of flimsy excuses made by a person who's clutching at straws, in order to reinforce the idea that I'm just a tunneler. Not good.

And finally there is the a/b/c analysis about being blocked which as I said makes no sense, since b and c can't be true. Yet they're not just mentioned as theoretical possibiles, they are actually given same weight as a. Why??
There is an "Information instead of analysis (?)" concept where scum attempt to give information instead of actually analyse. This feels like a similar "shallow analysis instead of analysis" created only to give the appearance that one is doing analysis.

--------------------------

So, sorry. but I won't change my vote.

God knows I try not to tunnel. I let go when I see I could be reinforcing a preconceived idea. Only last game I dropped off Laser's wagon, when I realised I'm just voting because of leftovers from a previous game, despite my personal dislike of him.
But in Carradice's case the more I read the worse it looks.

Vote stays.

If anyone has reservations about any points I mentioned in this thread, I'll happily hear them.

The Queen kinda expected the merchant to show up, but he didn't. Oh well. She decided to see what the damn vipers at the Daily...Viper wrote about her, on social media.

▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ ＴＨＥ ＤＡＩＬＹ ＶＩＰＥＲ █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

Our wondrous Queen has been known to work until the wee hours of the morning. But, what about her humour? Is she as royally square as some make her to be. A courtier asked about this denied it completely: "Her Majesty can be a very funny woman. The other day she told me a joke and I laughted so hard. I almost fell from the, er, no! delete that!".

(っ◔◡◔)っ ♥

What the hell were these guys up to!? She couldn't figure for the life of her. But, just like everytime she checked the Viper, the people engaging with these posts liked them and praised her to no ends. The opportunity to axe it wasn't now...

It seemed that when she looked at the clock, a whole 20 minutes had vanished into thin air. The guards were arguing...but about what? She hadn't the faintest idea...

SOMETHING SOMETHING VOTE COUNT!

yogsloth (3) - Lifthrasil, Microfish, Vitek
Carradice (2) - ZFR, trentonlf
ZFR (1) - Carradice

Not voted: JoeSapphire, Microfish, Vitek, dedoporno, FlockeSchnee, Lifthrasil, trentonlf
Not voting: JoeSapphire, yogsloth, dedoporno, FlockeSchnee

Yogsloth is closest to lynch, at L-3.
10 players. It takes 6 to lynch.
Court Phase 2 will end on Wednesday, 1st July at 7PM London Time (UTC+1). That's nearly three days left.