Well can you share your scumreads and town reads at least?

As I said yesterday, I share what I've got, I just don't have much at the moment.

Can you give two specific examples of things he's said and done that make you think of his usual (town?) self?

Heh, so that made three of us. My mood definitely picked up today; hope the same goes for you and Joe!

He responded in #271.
Please take a moment to read it, and then share your thoughts?

Can you give two specific examples of things he's said and done that make you think of his usual (town?) self?
How do you feel about Joe's own comment that he's playing "quite different to [his] usual games"?

You also didn't explicitly say anything about ZFR (other than that him gunning for Carradice is giving you pause) and Flocke (despite responding to her in that same post). Any thoughts on them?

Does this mean that you consider dedo, Lift and trent (the people who had one existing vote each at the time you posted) off the table? Why, for each of them?

You evidently don't consider it a "choice" to start a new wagon, yet you took me to task in #270 for feeling "the need to go with an established wagon". Can you explain that apparent double standard?

Does that mean you admit to rolefishing twice?

Please read my sentence again, and note that I'm directing it to you, and that the previous sentence was me saying how you asked me a question.

Joe - Lack of his trademark reads list, two things which might be rolefishing (the "mason chat" thing and "can you guarantee it?" toward me), and his dedo vote.
ZFR - "dedo, dedo, this is very bad" => "I take it back" + lack of anything which I see as town!ZFR, while I think I usually have at least a few town-pings from him on D1
Lift - lots of small superficial things which feel slightly more like scum!Lift looking for weaknesses to case shade on than like town!Lift questioning the veracity of fellow players

Can you give two specific examples of things he's said and done that make you think of Town Joe?

Finally, left without comment for possible later analysis:

#317: Carradice: 3 votes, everyone else 1 vote
dedo #318 - "A vote on Carradice is stupid at this point."
microfish #320 - vote Joe
dedo #326 - vote Joe
#334: Carradice, Joe: 3 votes, everyone else 1 vote
micro @ dedo #335 - "Have your thoughts crystallized more regarding Joe?"
Lift #336 - vote SirMrFailRomp
dedo @ micro #343 - "I'm not extremely happy with my vote and I'd like to find something better ... I'm also considering SPF"
ZFR #353 - unvote Carradice
ZFR #364 - vote Carradice
dedo #367 - unvote Joe
Lift #373 - vote Carradice

Yes I saw you insinuate I was rolefishing because I noted Joe stated he got his PM earlier. It was simply an idea that Mafia may have got flavour PMs earlier. But it's good shade if you're scum. The other issue would be if Joe was deceptive about when the PMs arrived in order to shade ZFR/Micro

You're also saying I have a trademark reads list. In my last game as Town I didn't. I think I've normally done it as Scum actually.

I will be joining an established wagon if another doesn't build. Right now it looks very unlikely there will be a lynch that isn't Joe or Carradice

I'd be more than willing to lynch Trent because I think he might have slipped. Although it might be a grudge from a previous game. He's tended to scumread me as Town since then. But it was the away he changed his opinion of me in a 180 degree turn within 30 minutes based on a 1 sentence post.

I don't think I want to lynch Dedo or Lift

I'm slightly scumreading you right now Gogtrial. Because you're scumreading ZFR and myself and ZFR is my strongest town read right now.

I still have only skimmed the thread (from post 165 onwards). I will read everything properly starting tomorrow evening (my time). I'm sorry, if some of the things I asked/will ask have already been answered.
Thanks to those, stating their opinion on voting/substituting.

And how do you know this?
Also: Is there an easy way to discern, if it's Mafia alluding to things or just friendly banter? Or does that depend on who does it and timing?

I understand "not having much on D1", but you're just saying "agree/disagree/believe it/don't believe it" without saying why. Is it really too much to ask for you to give some background for this opinion/decision? (If you actually gave some background somewhere, I will find it, when reading the thread properly.)
My vote stays for now.

And me not putting down any vote for someone valid until post 295: What do you make of that?

So, just friendly banter/teasing I understand?
I was one of those stragglers. Why didn't I look like a vote option for you then?
What do you think about buddying up to someone? Yes/No/Situational/something else?

Thanks.
"Unless you aren’t talking about alignment but about my role": One other thing I learned even from just observing, is to not go there. Did you expect me to?

? I had quoted the very post:
Or was your reference to fun in that post about it "not being alignment indicative, but merely using the "eavsdrop-secured method" to set the switch up", if it was at there disposal?

Did you actually read that post I made, which you quoted?
I think it's a play. (But I will have to ponder possible Mafia/Town reasons later.)

I was going to ask you to answer a question I asked you, but when I wanted to link to it, realized I forgot to ask (what a sentence):
Did you actually think that "switch" Micro and ZFR did was alignment indicative? Or did you just mean they might have used that "eavsdrop secured method" to set up the switch just for fun, if it was at there disposal?

Who is JackTopaz?
post 339: Are Jesters so universally hated among mafia players, that one damns oneself to get lynched, if they dare to even mention them?

I'd really like to read more from you too. All that I have on you so far was GR's play and that doesn't look good.

Because it's gogtrial. He knows his maths.

But you're right, I should have let him answer for himself. (which he did)

JoeSapphire.

Well, he suspects me, votes me, jokes around, flirts in a joking way and is otherwise relatively useless. As usual on D1. Joe usually has a quite lax attitude on D1 and only starts to invest himself, once he has found something he deems solid.

Do I really have to quote all posts where he jokes or suspects me or flirts? Also I didn't say that he was his usual Town self. That addition comes from you. I just said that he is himself. Which is NAI. He is just as jokey on D1 as scum as he is as Town.

Do you have a different opinion? Can you give two specific examples that tell you that Joe ISN'T his usual self?


No. But you're still relatively new. So I wanted to make sure, to avoid misunderstandings. And also because intended role-fishing wound have been bad.

...

.....

.......!!!?!***&$!

*sigh*
Okay, let me spell it out for you.

You asked me in #270: "So why are you voting for Joe?"

When I wrote #310, I said, about you "the only one who asked why I was voting Joe".

I said to you, as an answer to your question, that I (was voting for Joe because of Joe's)
- "Lack of his trademark reads list" (which I believe you should know he does most games, and which in #55 when he was lovers with me, he commented to me about in our private chat "think Joe, what do you usually do? Oh yes, a read's list"),
- "two things which might be rolefishing (the "mason chat" thing" ( #75)
- "and "can you guarantee it?" toward me)," ( #111)
- "and his dedo vote." ( #211)

To top it all off, I gave the exact same three reasons to trent just now for why Joe was in my top three.

You aren't. Though I certainly hope you're scum.

Why?

Because in my book you're still effectively under newbie D1 protection (we want you to have a good time and play with us more frequently - so unless you slip massively, you're not going to be most people's vote toDay), and because I really liked your posts yesterday, actively prodding people and following up on things. Scum can do legwork as well (I burned myself badly in #59 believing that newbie-scum Pooka wouldn't have put in the effort that he did), but on balance it'll still be mostly town putting in real effort trying to figure out the game, and many scum have a habit of lazily floating by, appearing busy more than actually trying to catch scum (simply because they can't, as they already know all most of what there is to know).

I try to stay on friendly terms with everyone (even if it takes some effort, sometimes, for players whose play styles clash with mine) :). I don't think I do more of this when non-town, and I definitely don't do it consciously as buddying, though of course it might have that effect.
In more general terms, it's definitely situational, and highly player dependent (some players are strongly against it, though I see it as one of many tools in the toolbox of good scum).

Since I doubt the answer to this would be alignment indicative: I deduced it as JoeSapphire.

The short Mohamed Salem approached the Queen, seemingly unafraid. "What's the time now, your Highness?"

The Queen looked briefly at the clock. She sighed, before pointing a finger towards it. Mohamed followed along, but couldn't make any details on it. It had no labels for the times! "My Lady, I can't tell the time."

"It's 9:43AM! Get better eyesight!" she retorted.

MICROFISH VOTE COUNT!

Carradice (4) - trentonlf, Vitek, ZFR, Lifthrasil
JoeSapphire (2) - gogtrial, Microfish
SirMrFailRomp (1) - Flockeschnee
dedoporno (1) - Carradice
Lifthrasil (1) - JoeSapphire
trentonlf (1) - supplementscene

Not voted: FlockeSchnee, yogsloth, Vitek, gogtrial, Microfish, ZFR, supplementscene
Not voting: yogsloth, SirMrFailRomp, dedoporno

Carradice is closest to imprisonment, at L-3.
There are 13 players. It takes 7 votes to imprison.
Court Phase 1 ends on Saturday, 20th June, 7PM London Time + any overtimes. Only two days left.
Check to make sure your vote is against the correct person.

That you are someone who likes to get a fuller grasp of the game before you vote, very similar to a player called HSL that use to play a lot. I vote when I see something off or to apply pressure, but if your style is to wait and see how the game is developing before you vote that’s ok I guess, but it can be construed as someone waiting to find the easy wagon to vote on or trying to go unnoticed. Do I think that’s what you’re doing? No. You’ve given thoughtful posts and are asking good questions to move the game state forward.

I'm here (sort of) and trying to read while waiting for my turn on Tabletop Simulator but it doesn't really work so I'll catch up a bit later after we finish our game.

hehehe

"if only to remove a distraction"

Notice the difference?

You're really twisting my words here.

This is what I have so far.

No one that I super want to lynch. There are some that look more townie than others:

1. Mostly Town:

Joe: There is nothing in his posts that looks scummy to this player. Simple as that.
SPF/SMFR: I buy his explanation. His posts are in the line with town!SMFR
Micro: At the beginning, nothing. Later, sensible posts, as sensible goes. I would sign many of his lines. A bit scarce in the thread, though.

2. Somewhat Town:

Gogtrial: First game with them. Mostly sound posts. If there are gross mistakes, they have escaped me. This longish post of his asking specific things to say from others is interesting. Although I do not know if he has offered similar quotes himself, appart for the rationale on his vote on Joe (if he did, I apologize in advance).
Scene: Even when he makes mistakes, they seem to be townie mistakes. Maybe.
Trent: Business as usual. A bit jumpy on the not-read thing.
GR/Yogsloth: GR sounded like his usual self. Yogs has done nothing that denies this.

About the rest, I really cannot say.

So, these are the people that I would not vote for in this game. If required in order to save them, I would vote for another bandwagon. I would like to see everyone in the second tier passing on towards D2. However, I would give preference to those in the first tier.

For now,

Unvote Dedo

no i don't, please elaborate? it is possible that i misread something, but I really don't see what you're on about