No. You got the cause-effect mixed up.

If Carradice turns out scum, those voting Joe could be doing so to save Carradice, and should be re-evaluated. By extension it'd means Joe's probably Town.

I liked Micro's recent responses and am Town-reading him more.

If Carradice makes a convincing 11th hour claim I'd be willing to switch to SPFXYZ. Not that I find him particularly scummy, but I don't see anything particularly Towny either. Willing to go with Joe too.

Because you're scum that knows what to do?

Yes, that a reference to Joe and Dedo. The thing is Dedo dropped it much sooner so I didn't really get much of a feeling from him regarding that.

Nothing on ZFR or Micro.

Well I was pissed last night, but you also explained it much better in this post to trent. There's no discrepancy though. I didn't suggest I'd given a lot of opinions, just that I was under the impression that I had explained the few opinions I had put forward.

"I have no opinions" as you put it is "I have no more opinions to give" not "I have never given any opinions". Is this a genuine misunderstanding or an attempt to misrepresent me?

Be careful, if we have a snitch the GOG police might lock the thread. But I guess one more can't do any harm if someone is already snitching on us.

Black lives matter!

I meant it in a general sense, don't worry!


I mean, do worry about the game but don't worry about having offended me because I always funny. And so is that mysterious SPF fellow.


No no, dealers choice!

But for the sake of discussion, I meant knowing what your timezone is in global terms. i.e. if I lived in New York I hope I'd know that Eastern Daylight Time is UTC-4. Anyway.

Ohh you were Alexa! Sorryyyy... You are right, I kept thinking of my twin by her given name, Alexa. Maybe because of the work on the dreams (in the end you managed things so well on D-2 that only one was necessary!). Sorry for not remembering before. The sea of faces is a good metaphor. I think that if the case was to be repeated, things would go definitely better. I liked a few things you posted in this game (more on that below). In any case, we could work to achieve the goal. It was nice to achieve a second victory.

About Lift, by elimination he is the only viable wagon that I might take, after the views that I posted a few days ago. I do not know why he needs to say that I am deflecting attention. He is not even one of the leading wagons.

You mention SPF and Joe. Let us add Micro. They are my top-townie reads. I find nothing in Joe or Micro, and even if SPF has been not too present, he gave a good reason. It fits that he bid his time before taking a decision. Whereas Lift has been largely absent, yet he made a comfortable vote and stayed there. He has been skating for the week, totally unhindered so far (yet a simple vote he takes as deflecting). If he is town he should be participating more next week. Also, if SPF has been unwell, I would prefer to give him a chance next week.

So, I do not know the outcome about Lift, it might happen or might not. But if I was to move against any in the trio, it would be a reality.

Also, there was a post of yours about how Town people should play, in general, addressed to Micro. I agree that is the best way for the whole of Town, and the one I have heartily practiced since that first game when Town. However, in the short history of three gamaes before the present one, I have also seen people who do not go like that, in varying degrees. Also people might conform to a lynch that they think is wrong because of various reasons. That part I do not appreciate. I understand mafiosos as doing mischief because it is their duty, but the conformism or even parasitism (all in degrees and with or without excuses) of people in the Town faction stroke me as ugly in that first game. It was a bit too much like some things can go in the real world. Even made a couple of darkish jokes about it, back in the day.

All that speech to simply say that I would like to take my chances, stick to the only viable wagon that I find acceptable (as per a listing published days ago before this situation), and hope for the best.

In any case I admit to be a novice, not knowing many things about Mafia, but so far I prefer to keep things this way.

At the very least, hopefully they will be unburdened by an early decision and a later silly blunder, and might be earmarked for imprisonment a bit less easily than I allowed myself to be!


****

About this merchant that is completely different from Pooka or anyone else, who knows, maybe some spontaneous person who checked with Pooka in order to have some fun. Fortunately it is not Pooka or anyone in the game, else the full weight of GOG forum regulations might befall the offender, isn't it? Same as this copycat of sir-whatever that has been helping with bumps and witty remarks.

(The line above is not a vote) ;-)

No, of course not. It's just a mysterious stranger.....doing a spot on impression/impersonation of GR's writing style and such.

(Note, the above is not a vote.)

Why those three in particular, but not anyone else who is off Carradice's wagon?

One explanation I can think of: because dedo and SMFR were not voting anyone in #488? (but why yourself?) Interestingly enough they voted in #489 and #490 respectively, and there were ~8 hours between #488 and your post, so you'd think you'd base this thinking on the actual situation rather than an outdated votecount, even with your habit of responding to things in order. But if that isn't it, then I really don't see the rationale for these three names in particular. Please enlighten me?

Lift, ZFR and Joe were my top three in [https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_67_mamlakat_al_shams/post378] #378[/url]. Joe had just dropped out in #413. You took his place, partly due to Joe's defense, partly due to me re-examining the evidence based on which I townread you.

Beyond that, bragging rights for me is chiefly about giving voice to the more outlandish theories that are percolating through my mind. "If this is the scum-team, and I saw successfully through that, I am the greatest mafia player alive!" It doesn't necessarily have to be the combination of the three scummiest individual players.


A complete read's list at this point:

gogtrial

flocke

Vitek

ZFR
scene
Joe

Carradice
yogs

trent
Lift
dedo

micro

SPF

- Vitek could still easily go the way of micro; my initial town-reads of them both were based on the same behaviour, and I haven't re-examined Vitek yet.
- The middle groups are nearly interchangeable in positioning.
- yogs is very much still in the process of being evaluated.
- I had Carradice grouped wiht ZFR and Joe initially, but writing it down like that, I realized I haven't actually taken a careful look at Carradice; I just dismissed the early arguments against him, and focused on other things. Too late now, and if I'm wrong, my help luckily won't be needed.
- dedo/Lift/trent are ranked where they are mostly because they're just not making things happen. Pushes without conviction or followup.
- micro was grouped closely together with SPF originally, but has been putting in the work, and has been giving town-pings that are making me doubt myself.

Outlandish theory: If Joe and dedo are scum together, the third is definitely SPF (or maybe micro?) - Based primarily on the way Joe removed Carradice's town-lean in #498, and then voting him in #521 moving the other two wagons out of reach, particularly with still listing micro as a top pick in #434.
But for the moment I have Joe as a slight town-lean.

No vote changes since previous vote count.

THREE HOURS LEFT.

Also, my timezone is UTC+2, and London's ought to be UTC+1 (somebody please explain timezones to me in PM, specifically why London isn't UTC right now)

I still don't really know how to spot things, but this is what I have:

Nothing that sticks out to me either way:
04. ZFR (Khaled al Adeeb)
05. Microfish_1 (Mohamed Salem)
08. Vitek (Basil ibn Layth)
10. trentonlf (Faris al Adham)
11. JoeSapphire (Abd-allah al Jameel)
06. gogtrial34987 (Abd-al-atheem Maaroof) (But looks the most townish to me right now.)

Would vote at this time (preferance in this order):
03. SirPrimalform/SirMrFailRomp (Belal al Nawar)
Lurky and not exactly acting like wanting to help solve the game.

12. GameRager/yogsloth (Achmed ibn Hamam)
Looked like MafiaGR and yogsloth acts pretty much like SPF/SMFP.

09. Carradice (Ahmad ibn Fadlan)
His play so far. He looks more like Non-TownCarradice in his posts. But I have more the feeling, that this has to do with metagameestablishing stuff. I just can't picture this play "just for fun", considering I associate charts (like math in general) with meticulous people and Carradice doesn't particually strike me as someone who would play to loose just for fun either. I could be wrong. But that's how I see it.

01. supplementscene (Tareq Gamal)
Trying to make trent's posts look worse then they were (at least to me). I don't see why town would do that, but I can see Mafia wanting to see if they have a potential lynch-candidate.
Inconsistencies, like wanting to vote SPF/SMFR for lurking, but not doing so. Yes, he may have been under the weather, but he posted without much content.

02. Lifthrasil (Lathif ben Rasil)
He has a way of picking on things and give them back with "injected" meaning. I don't know how to describe it.
Like, I ask about him about chance of being found out as mafia and he says something like "I'm not going to tell you if I have a PR or not".
Dedos argument to Carradice about (un-)intenionally harming his Mafia partners because of not reading his PM and Lift being like "might be Carradice's angry Mafia partner".
This is at least giving me pause, if this is really TownLift. But other than that, nothing really sticks out to me.

07. dedoporno (Faraam Nazari)
Something is niggeling me here, but I don't know what.

Well, it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

Unvote SPF/SMFR
Vote Carradice
(This should be Nr. 6, I just refreshed)

Yes, easily. In a very me-centric worldview, I've seen micro copying my behaviour and reads a lot, and I originally townread him for it (paying attention to things, chasing up references), but when Joe pushed back strongly, several of micro's statements just didn't hold up together, and my townread of him felt like my townread of Pooka in #59.

All of that is completely separate from everything that was going on with Carradice. micro's lack of engagement with Carradice might be significant, but as I see Carradice as more likely to be town than not, I don't think it is.

As I just spotted flock's vote:

@Carradice: please claim!

Unvote Carradice, don’t want an accidental hammer like has happened in the past.

The quotes were borked, so separate post.

I can't find this. Do you know what (real time) day that was? (rolefishing and the PM-thing)

Benefit of the doubt for now. English isn't my mother language. So maybe that's why I don't see the difference.
I wouldn't call process of elimination scummy read though.

Ah, that makes sense. I feel better about this now.

And seeing how I still think that was MafiaGR, I did wonder if MafiaGogtrial would try and coach his partner in the gamethread (post 100) rather then in scumchat. I guess the risk of getting scum points is lower, since everyone knows about 24/7-chat. Question is, would it get MafiaGogtrial town points, to tell TownGR to act more like town?

Also:
Would you say coming to your aid is typical ZFR?


I think having read, someone town-reading a player might accomplish pocketing that town-read player sometimes.

This is actually giving me the impression of gleeful Mafia, seeing me driving off to a dried out lake for fishing or something.


(For future reference to muse about possible correlations, since SPF/SMFR forgot about dedo.)
485 (dedo to micro) after an extremely reluctant SPF/SMFR replied on the avatar stuff
490 dedo vote micro
501 (micro) Note that some mods put scum in a mason chat anyway, just to throw everyone into confusion.
503 dedo ate on spf/smfrs behalf?

MID-PAGE 10 VOTE COUNT 2!

Carradice (5) - ZFR, Lifthrasil, SirMrFailRomp, JoeSapphire, Flockeschnee
Microfish (3) - Vitek, supplementscene, dedoporno
SirMrFailRomp (2) - gogtrial, yogsloth
Lifthrasil (1) - Carradice
ZFR (1) - Microfish

Not voted: FlockeSchnee, yogsloth, Vitek, gogtrial, supplementscene, dedoporno, JoeSapphire, trentonlf
Not voting: trentonlf

Carradice is closest to imprisonment, at L-2. Two more votes will instantly imprison Carradice and end Court Phase 1.
There are 13 players. It takes 7 votes to imprison.
Court Phase 1 ends on Saturday, 20th June, 7PM London Time + any overtimes. ONLY 2 HOURS AND A HALF LEFT!
Check to make sure your vote is against the correct person.

Also as a matter of policy: even if I don't officially announce that Break Phase 1 has began, any votes made after 7PM London Time today will not be counted.

Carradice?

Hi there! Well, the claiming is a sort of a ritual thing. Sometimes it is done even too often. I am not sure that they help anything, unless an exceptional lie is provided. Whatever happens, happens, but no free information for the other party.

You can consider this anyway: those who were with me in the last three games, do you remember the alignments and roles that I was getting? This one was long due...

Good luck and hopefully the loyal guards win this. I am leaving the game in your care. Do not disappoint.