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General discussionGOG Mafia #62 - The Pwen(824 posts)(824 posts)
(824 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 05, 2019
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ZFR: Yes, but if trent is lying then trent is scum, then he's not suspicious of agent.
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GameRager: Hence he could be lying about being suspicious of agent.
Yes, but that's not what your post said. Read it again:

"I just find it odd trent found it scummy that someone else said he USED to be scum, and is no more. I mean that would imply that other player wasn't calling him scum now, so why was trent suspicious of them?"

Your posts implies that you think trent "found it scummy that someone else said he USED to be scum". You think it's weird that trent finds agent suspicious because agent isn't saying that trent's scum now.

That's not the case: trent finds it scummy NOT because agent called him scum. It's because agent LIED. The content itself of the lie is not relevant. He lied which town shouldn't do.

If trent is the liar here then he's lying about being suspicious of agent. But in that case your statement is wrong too. You shouldn't question why trent is suspicious of agent for calling him scum, but why trent is lying in the first place
Posted October 05, 2019
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ZFR: Yes, but that's not what your post said. Read it again:

"I just find it odd trent found it scummy that someone else said he USED to be scum, and is no more. I mean that would imply that other player wasn't calling him scum now, so why was trent suspicious of them?"

Your posts implies that you think trent "found it scummy that someone else said he USED to be scum". You think it's weird that trent finds agent suspicious because agent isn't saying that trent's scum now.
First, I skimmed some replies, and as such I misread some things and also in a rush might have miswrote what I meant. That said I now see that one post NMillar marked as being suspicious as suspicious myself....especially when paired with the reasoning that others brought up that making scum town(and not reshuffling all other scum) would be highly unlikely for OP to do.

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ZFR: That's not the case: trent finds it scummy NOT because agent called him scum. It's because agent LIED. The content itself of the lie is not relevant. He lied which town shouldn't do.
Yes but all I had to base that on was Trent's word(at the time) until Nmillar pointed that one post out above & I rethought things. Trent's word alone(that agent was lying) without proof wouldn't have proven agent was/is scum.

Also a sidenote on lying: Wouldn't it be prudent for town to also lie at certain times(like if they have power roles and scum are fishing for them)? That alone would invalidate the town should never lie tenet.

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ZFR: If trent is the liar here then he's lying about being suspicious of agent. But in that case your statement is wrong too. You shouldn't question why trent is suspicious of agent for calling him scum, but why trent is lying in the first place
Question everything.....that should also be a town tent(if it isn't one already).
Posted October 05, 2019
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GameRager: Also a sidenote on lying: Wouldn't it be prudent for town to also lie at certain times(like if they have power roles and scum are fishing for them)? That alone would invalidate the town should never lie tenet.
Yes, which is why I write that Town should almost never lie.
Posted October 05, 2019
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blotunga: Can't sleep, on the phone and battery low so a few quickies:
@zfr: scum had a loud ninja... Bastard enough if you ask me
@trent: exactly what I wrote above.
Well you hypothesized 3 things, not that all were true at once. And on your number two i disagree because I say only a vanilla townie could have became scum not that any townie could have become scum. But yes you basically say the same thing. I just really hate setup talk in this instance because I think it can be game breaking. I mean if we are correct then agent pretty much outed himself. I’m still not sure why he tried to throw me in the mix though.
Posted October 05, 2019
Wow. Things happened. So either agent or trent are lying. At this point we know for (99%) sure, that one of them is scum. ZFR already discussed the two points:
why would agent draw attention to himself, and
why would trent (if he isn't town) draw attention to himself.
and answered correctly that one of the two seems to be trying a daring gambit. I'll throw in a remote third explanation: they could, theoretically, both be scum and try to ensure the survival of one of them by sacrificing the other. They have a direct contradiction, one is lynched, flips scum and the other suddenly looks very, very Towny. That would be a daring gambit which could work out. But for the moment the only things it means is, that when one of them flips scum, we cannot hard-clear the other one. That doesn't change the course for the moment: lynch one of the two. I don't see any reason not to. Only one of them can be saying the truth and that means at least one of them is scum. That are better odds than we usually have on D1.

so: unvote blotunga

However, before I put my vote on the agent train, I would like to have an answer to an important question, because I seem to have missed something:
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blotunga: @zfr: scum had a loud ninja... Bastard enough if you ask me
How do you know that, blotunga? Were you a loud ninja and aren't anymore? Or what did you mean by that comment?
Posted October 05, 2019
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Lifthrasil: why would agent draw attention to himself, and
why would trent (if he isn't town) draw attention to himself.
Exactly. Something doesn't add up. Especially since Agent's story could have been that he was scum with Dedo AND Micro, neither of which could contradict him. Instead, he chooses a story that Trent can refute. It bothers me.

Agent did repeatedly say "Lynch all Liers" though, and the irony is too good to pass up, so
Vote Agentcarr

Maybe one of them is a Joker, after that discussion in the Admin thread. Or maybe I'm the one going crazy.
Posted October 05, 2019
EBWOP Liars, not "Liers"
Posted October 05, 2019
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blotunga: @zfr: scum had a loud ninja... Bastard enough if you ask me
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Lifthrasil: How do you know that, blotunga? Were you a loud ninja and aren't anymore? Or what did you mean by that comment?
That was about Joe'a previous game, when scene was the loud ninja.
Why do I find that somewhat bastardly? Because if he would've killed zfr successfully in N1, everyone would've known about it.

@trent: not the three things, but this https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_62_the_pwen_1/post153

Anyway I still don't understand agent's gambit. It would be to early for it imho. But only one way to find out, if we lynch him and flips town, tomorrow we'll lynch trent.
@joe can we have a votecount?
Posted October 05, 2019
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blotunga: Why do I find that somewhat bastardly? Because if he would've killed zfr successfully in N1, everyone would've known about it.
No. that's not what a Loud modifier does. You're thinking Party Host.

A Loud modifier means that the *Target* only knows they have been targetted. For a scum ninja (or a vig) the Loud modifier has usually no effect since the target dies anyway. Even in the unusual case of target surviving the kill (like it happened on N1), the target is only notified "You've been targeted". Not by whom and not with what action (and since I targeted myself that night, I thought that's what the message referred to and dismissed it).

If scene had killed me successfully on N1, no one would've know about it.
Posted October 05, 2019
Since the wagon is at L-1 I'll

unvote

agent need to say his defense after trent's revelation before he gets quickhammered.

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nmillar: FAO GameRager.
What does FAO mean? The closest I could thing of is FOS finger of suspicion.


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blotunga: @zfr: scum had a loud ninja... Bastard enough if you ask me
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Lifthrasil: How do you know that, blotunga? Were you a loud ninja and aren't anymore? Or what did you mean by that comment?
As blotunga said, this is about Joe's last game (Captain Sapphire the Movie). Myself and blotunga were desicussing how much Joe can be a Bastard as a mod.
Posted October 05, 2019
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ZFR: Since the wagon is at L-1 I'll

unvote

agent need to say his defense after trent's revelation before he gets quickhammered.

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nmillar: FAO GameRager.
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ZFR: What does FAO mean? The closest I could thing of is FOS finger of suspicion.

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Lifthrasil: How do you know that, blotunga? Were you a loud ninja and aren't anymore? Or what did you mean by that comment?
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ZFR: As blotunga said, this is about Joe's last game (Captain Sapphire the Movie). Myself and blotunga were desicussing how much Joe can be a Bastard as a mod.
I agree that we should hear agent out. His wagon built speed quite fast so even if he's scum he's on his way to be bussed (if I were scum I likely were on his wagon at lynch).
Posted October 05, 2019
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ZFR: Since the wagon is at L-1 I'll

unvote

agent need to say his defense after trent's revelation before he gets quickhammered.

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nmillar: FAO GameRager.
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ZFR: What does FAO mean? The closest I could thing of is FOS finger of suspicion.

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Lifthrasil: How do you know that, blotunga? Were you a loud ninja and aren't anymore? Or what did you mean by that comment?
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ZFR: As blotunga said, this is about Joe's last game (Captain Sapphire the Movie). Myself and blotunga were desicussing how much Joe can be a Bastard as a mod.
For Attention Of. GameRager asked for the post to be highlighted.
Posted October 05, 2019
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Lifthrasil: How do you know that, blotunga? Were you a loud ninja and aren't anymore? Or what did you mean by that comment?
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blotunga: That was about Joe'a previous game, when scene was the loud ninja.
Ah, ok. Then I misunderstood.

Yes, a loud ninja is a classic example of a bastard role.
Posted October 05, 2019
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Lifthrasil: Yes, a loud ninja is a classic example of a bastard role.
Why?????
Posted October 05, 2019
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Lifthrasil: Yes, a loud ninja is a classic example of a bastard role.
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ZFR: Why?????
It borders on a false role. True, the 'loud' doesn't entirely negate the benefit of the Ninja. But still it is a modifier that no one connects with the typically silent Ninja.

But is that really relevant for this game whether a role from a past game is bastard or not?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #62 - The Pwen(824 posts)(824 posts)
(824 posts)