Well last time it really OUGHTN'T to have worked well, so now that I'm NOT playing a Double-Agent-Godfather-Secret-Lover-Double-Daychat (softclaim!) then.... it should work well?

vote SirPrimalform

pew pew!

(because I think he's on bler's team: Thanks for asking.)

Ok, last chance. You're trying...sorta. Let's posit you are town to remove that from argument.

The reality is, with roughly zero exceptions, that no player of any alignment should ever WANT to be investigated. It doesn't even necessarily beat eating a mislynch, because investigations in GoG games are generally precious since almost all our games are small and we like our vigs, etc. Mislynches will happen nearly every game, often driven by other town, and if you do them well, you can still help your team.

If you're maf, then duh. Obvious.
But even as town the fact that a cop felt compelled to spend a night on you may be "helping" you personally, but it's hurting your team. Ideally, you want investigators spending time on anti-town, not clearing townies.

Set you and I aside (to try and get past your pre-judgement here). Pretend you have A/B/C mafia, D/E neutral, and F-whatever town. The ideal play for a parity cop is N0 A, N1 B, N2 C. Would you not agree? Yes/no?

Any time elsewhere is, marginally speaking, lost time, especially because this is by design going to average to be a shorter game, so likely fewer results period, and neutrals really muck things up. Even if they go D N0, the ideal sequence is back to A-B-C, not to F.

Take player F, who really, really, really wants to be confirmed as town (and with a parity cop, potentially over-estimating the possibility of even BEING confirmed) and asks to be investigated, or plays anti-town/curiously enough they draw one anyway. That time spent on F is a net negative for town compared to ideal play. It just is. It's not shade. It's not whatever you think it is. It's fact.

If parity cop in particular goes A-F-B-D then all the parity cop knows is not much depending on who if any of those have flipped. F flips, but both A&B could either be scum or neutral. You still have more flips you need, and may not have that luxury if approaching LYLO/MYLO.

F-G-H is something because 'same' is generally more valuable than different in this setup, but still of limited use (example in point, see my last game) in most gamestates.

Things that are good for town player F in the short are often in conflict with what is good for town in the long run, and ultimately you/win lose with your team. Being town, F is uninformed about anything besides their alignment, so even their assumptions about player G or D or B are just that - assumptions.

Play well enough that your play helps sort you at least more often than not. Period.

As for the role stuff, I don't believe I said you "claimed" it - my view is you've pretty clearly implied either you aren't those roles, or perhaps you are but just didn't read your PM and chose to ask Lift about both roles in-game rather than clarifying in private chat for heaven knows what reason. I mean, that is possible.

But all that's whatever.

Setting the game completely aside:
We're all going to make mistakes in this game. I'm well aware my game has a range of flaws, and certain strengths. I try to play to those. When I fuck up (which I do) I try to acknowledge, apologize if called for, and move on.

And yes, we will sometimes make assumptions that are incorrect. it happens. How do you respond? If your default is to assume that anybody calling you out on something is scum seeking your mislynch...it's going to be very hard to grow as a player. Like any game/sport, listening to veterans (who yes, sometimes may be trying to get one over on you but often are generally trying to guide) who've seen it, or even made those mistakes themselves, will only help you grow as a player for the next game.

If you think this post is anything other than a genuine attempt to try and explain to you in purely 100% neutral terms - if you think this is me being arrogant or condescending or just trying to misrep you - then by all means, please say so and in that eventuality I'm happy ask to be replaced, and all I will say is that you should have an open conversation with others, perhaps the GOGfather post-game, because this can't continue.

Or are you a Neutral? I'm not so sure SPF would vote you, even RVS, if you were his partner.

Lyncher? With SPF as target? That would be quite ironic.

Something's strange about you.

No we didn't, you were too busy making assumptions on what I was signalling instead of directly asking me. Not that you were the only one making assumptions what not starting out with my expected meta means while not bothering to engage me directly (which you at least sort of did); that was quite interesting to see. And then there were my sorta_kinda defenders; that was also pretty interesting to see.

So, was my vote on P1na RVS? Yes and no. The "yes" part should have clicked with both you and him. The "no" part is that while he casually joke-voted ZFR, the joke felt a tad (too) dragged out.



Why do you hate it now?


Did bler144 actually suggest this (and if so, where?), or are you interpolating?


...

@Lift:

Is this still correct: "Neutral roles random."

Does it mean either of the Neutral roles may or may not exist?

Ok re-read thru the latest a couple times.

Scene vs bler is eerily similar to last game but it feels off somehow. Maybe Scene is mafia again and learned from last game but I'm not buying it based on this exchange. Likewise bler as mafia isn't quite doing it for me either but possibly a neutral at this point.

Something strange going on with Joe, ZFR, and SPF I feel.
Joe why the vote on SPF?
ZFR same question. Is it due to a metaread I'm not privy to?

Due to risk of double mislynch I’m changing my vote to no lynch.

Lift “The only way to get a No-Lynch is, if a majority votes explicitly No-Lynch”. Do you mean absolute majority or just plurality here?

LOL I like this post so much it's not even funny. Obviously they're doing the same thing you are - tossing out a scum fishing line right?

I mean, normally I'd vote to lynch a Day One "No Lynch" vote on principle but in a game like this you HAVE to be waiting for the (scum) player or two to toss a vote on you for suggesting something so stupid.

Kudos to Joe for the unbolded wagon push too. The vote, but not really, but is it a vote? I hate and love you man - your metagame is strong.

I Vote for the First person that votes for Muddy for suggesting a No Lynch. And in the spirit of Joe's No bolded Maybe vote on Supplemental, I could maybe see myself voting for him (scene) based on this line alone:

I mean if Krypsyn (RIP?) were in this game that would just scream a "Heh" - either I'm totally missing the point of it or it's off as all hell. The only thing throwing me off on scene is that he seems to play the game like a townie, on crack, with ADD... throwing theories left and right constantly in a stream of conscious sort of thing. So almost like me. Which is super confusing to me LOL.

Anyway, I know I'm personally almost (but not quite - I don't think?) out of RVS.

I'm not sure I totally follow. I assume you're mocking my inexperience but I'm serious. With lynching only requiring a plurality and ties resulting in double lynch I'll withhold my vote for now. With D1 Phase 1 ending while I'm asleep or at work and Phase 2 possibly close behind I'd rather not help mafia win by getting two people mislynched on D1 while I'm away.

Yes.

Depends on the Phase. In Phase 1 an absolute majority voting No-Lynch would be required. In Phase 2 (which will start some time today) a relative majority (plurality, if that's the word) voting No-Lynch would be sufficient.

I suggest everyone reads Bler's post thoroughly and ask yourselves 'is what he saying true or is he twisting the truth'?There's allot there that I believe is untrue and I'm sold he's not town. I think he's Neutral Lyncher or maybe Mafia.

Who else would like Scene and Bler to be the investigations? Is it just me? Or do others think it would tell the rest of Town allot? If you read us both of as Town then yes it would be a waste. But if you think one of us isn't, you then have your successful lynch. Actually why not lynch Bler this round and me next round if he is town?

Why do you think Bler is terrified of being investigated alongside me?
He was happy to lynch me a page ago but won't accept us both being investigated. He still points to multiple reasons that I'm suspicious, including me not accepting 'feedback', but feedback seems to include being told what to do and how to behave in a bullying manner. Which is perhaps to control his agenda.

I was willing to take a time out if Bler agreed to it so you could all reflect on our posts

This is a nonsense and further muddying of the waters. Parity Cop needs 2 distinctly opposing players to go against ideally to even find Scum. He doesn't have tons of clues who A, B and C maybe. Right now to me you look the most likely to be A, B and C anyway. A few may think I am A, B or C. Finding out which of us is and which of isn't A, B and C is vital.

All of this analysis that doesn't add up is a way of masking one thing Blur. You're scum or more probably the neutral lyncher and you know if you're lynched before me you lose.

Vote on you remains. I'm happy to be Day 2 Lynch if you don't show up as Scum or Neutral Lyncher, that's how confident I am in my read at the moment.

Joe I do read your play as similar to last game. And now you've vote flipped after I brought this up. Last game I thought you said something that didn't add up in nightchat. I think you're similarly deflecting with humour here

I'm reading you as not town. What has SirPrimalForm done to make you suspicious of him?

Interesting read today.

My impression is that bler and scene is likely town/town violence.

@muddy - I don't have the energy right now to go into the long version, but the short version is that no lynch is the worst possible outcome for this game day. Town needs information and the only sure way to gain information is to lynch someone and get their flip. More likely than not, we will lynch a townie. That's the breaks, but it gives us information.

The plurality lynch in the second phase only occurs at the end of the day (when Lift calls time), presumably sometime on Friday. At this point we need votes on players to get a sense of where players stand, so we are not rushing at the last minute (which is often the case). The day will only end early if we reach a majority vote.

I like Ixam's reply. It may have been prudent to wait for someone to vote, but I like the sentiment.

I voted because yes, his play now felt more like his play in Poppy's game where he was scum than in my game where he was Town.
I kept my vote because of his reaction. His "Maybe my idle speculation was more on the mark than I expected?" and... nothing? No vote on me? No questioning further?

a) Not me. I'd rather mafia was investigated.
b) Trust me, it's not happening.

Whether or not bler is town/neutral/mafia, what he shared about trying to direct a PR's night actions is sound advice. At the moment, I have no intention of voting for either you or bler today. My hunch is still that you are both town. Pursuing a lynch on either of you would be counter-productive (unless we are forced to policy lynch for game stasis, which is far from ideal but is not without precedence). Unless bler is trying really hard to emulate his town-game, what I see so far is try-hard town-bler.

BTW, bler's A-B-C analysis is optimal (assuming one of them flips).

I would ask you both to try to focus on anyone else at least for today (the actual day, Thursday).