Why?

Because it's a team game. Town win or lose it together. Lone rangers typically cause more problems than they solve.

I am here, getting coffee.

I beg to differ.

As you said, win or lose together. If a lone townie votes mafia and other townie vote town, they lose together.

So it depends on the situation. Lone players can be pro town or anit town.

I didn't think you were trying to lie / misrepresent - there were just a lot of votes flying. And the "heh" isn't toward you - it was more toward (assuming what you saw was correct? ZFR seems to think not) ZFR / P1na - that maybe one doesn't really want the double lynch (though I sort of tend to doubt that) or that the other DOES. I just seems to suggest the mouths and votes aren't lining up.

That's fair, our play styles are different. But please consider this, it's a team game. When you keep your reads a secret, town has a difficult time parsing you. Just because you are asking probing questions, doesn't make you town. We both know you can do that as either alignment. So help me out here, is there anyone you think is scum (actual scum, not a self-pres vote)? Waiting until what seems like the last minute (when we are not certain when a day will end) does make me paranoid.

BTW, it sounds like you have some analysis coming and I look forward to reading it.

Dude, are you going to self-preserve or not? We're tied now you and me. You can change that.

The only thing this made me think is that maybe you're not mafia. SPF-HSL-bler then? SPF-HSL-cristi?

Oh wow, looks like the ZFR wagon made a comeback. Ok, allow me to break that tie.

Vote ZFR

It's not the "no, not that one!" by and of itself, it's how he tried to downplay it as a simple, i.e. with no implications, statement of "I'm not voting him".

As you said, it's Ixamyakxim, so perhaps mafia!Ixamyakxim thought he'd get town-cred defending PR town!ZFR? I'd not do it that way, you probably wouldn't either, but... Ixamyakxim.

And as cristigale said, it doesn't make sense for town!Ixamyakxim to draw attention to a breadcrumb if all he wanted to tell the board is that he won't vote him. Even for Ixamyakxim, while Ixamyakxim.

The buddy theory makes sense. Not sure what to make of ZFR wanting to get Ixamyakxim lynched, or so he appears. Though I've not seen mafia!ZFR before, I definitely don't put it past him to bus his fellow scum-buddy if that'd get him town cred, especially if we have a three-man mafia team and said buddy is a Goon.

I prefer ZFR over Ixamyakxim, the latter's lynch yields rather little in terms of info (he's not even deemed it worth to answer your question regarding his vote on me), while there's quite some stuff around ZFR. I've been watching ZFR, and his ISO I don't like. The things that caught my eye have been pointed out, most of them by you, his latest replies to you included, so not going over them again.

Additional things:

I also think that his post #320 seems to serve several things, among them a bit of additional support to his #258 - he's doubly covered with the self-preserving and ending up being a late comer on JoeSapphire's wagon, given all that thought sharing that followed in post #329.

Now he's pushing a double lynch based on his (alleged) PoE. Which allegedly was made for "post-game bragging rights". Yet when JoeSapphire did something similar, he thought it could be coming from mafia!JoeSapphire, and voted him after the latter replied.

What's perhaps even more interesting is that this PoE allegedly lists SirPrimalform's mafia buddies. SirPrimalform being his favourite lynch candidate since D1, and vice versa. And yet somehow, when it comes down to it, neither one is pushing for the other's lynch. Same Yesterday, same Today. And Today they're not even voting each other, both sitting pretty on Ixamyakxim.

I will go on record and say that I don't like this PoE angle in the early game days, as it gives people a good excuse not to (fully) explain/justify their (alleged) scum-reads, while having enough room to claim "oops, I really thought such and such was town" after a mislynch.

And while this may come across as self-serving, it's definitely anti-town to try to exploit a Phase 2 self-vote to get someone lynched, let alone push a double lynch on it, more so based on some early bragging-rights PoE. I also find it mind-boggling that he thought it possible I'd miss the EoD when I knew that I was self-voting. Apparently because ZFR has never played or observed me before. And because Lifthrasil's has introduced the vague deadline, then demonstrated that he's in favour of rushing it to catch as many as possible players off guard. He went on and on about it for D1, and he goes about it Today, even after having the D1 data on this.

And I also don't like that on occasions, he has to be prodded more than once to answer questions/address things directed at him.

I'm good voting here. Should he get lynched, and flip town, I'm going on record that ZFR's play has been quite anti-town on several fronts. I'm sure he disagrees.


agentcarr16 has also raised my eyebrow, but this isn't the moment to get (more) into that.



Remarkable confidence. In yourself for all your town-reads being correct, as apparently nobody can fool you.


Well, it wouldn't look organic if you'd waited to see first where the wind's blowing, would it?


That's some impeccable town play right there.


And here's that certainty again...

I am not going to quibble words. I think you get my gist. Voting who you think is scum is always pro-town, although there are times for compromise (assuming you don't have a strong opposing read). Trying to push a mechanic that others do not support late in the game day creates confusion that is easy for scum to manipulate.

That wasn't what I wanted you to clarify.



My analysis is of limited scope, and scattered a bit over several posts; don't think it's prudent to offer full reads lists on the eve of N2 for a couple of reasons. But I made clear who I think is scum, and who else has caught my attention, and for what reason(s).

Speaking of scum - my vote on ZFR isn't a self-pres one, as seems to be your impression. I intended to vote him for the reasons in my post #443, and was planning to do things in the proper order (lay out reasons, place vote); the bait had served its purpose, and it was time to make clear where I stand. But he saw fit to go full-bore with his voting shenanigans while I was still typing my posts, which made it look like my vote was a self-pres one.

On a side note - I didn't intentionally wait until the last minute, nor was it my intention to make anyone paranoid. Well, except perhaps the mafia. I had problems with my heating system for the last couple of days, and taking care of them was a priority. Unlike ZFR, I didn't think our mod would end the Day as soon as he opened his eyes on Saturday morning (I was keeping somewhat of an eye on the thread on that borrowed mobile), and I did get on as soon as things returned to normal. Which was way earlier than I usually do/have time, exactly because it's EoD2.

Wow, other than Hyper's last post, it's gone quiet.

Except that Lift specifically said random. I take random to mean random.org.

random.org doesn't care about catching players off guard. You waited till 3pm of deadline (Lift's time. 2pm UCT). How on earth is that good Town strategy?

No, I don't feel bad using mafia's self vote to secure his lynch. I'd do it again. You willfully chose late vote strategy with all the associated risks. Remember D1 of Poppy's game?

I think this is current vote count:

Ixam 1 - flubb (391)
ZFR 5 - bler (380), agent (416), HSL (419), cristi (435), SirP (442)
SirP 1 - muddy (403)
HSL 3 - Ixam (347), P1na(413), ZFR (421)

I thought ZFR was at 4 votes, but I missed agent's vote when tracking earlier. If so, ZFR is at L-1.

@ZFR - do you indend to claim?

No, I'm fine.

I'm honestly not sure what to make of that.