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General discussionGOG Forum Mafia # 29 - The Deep Smelly Dungeon(1222 posts)(1222 posts)
(1222 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 18, 2015
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bler144: Why would you assume that? Flub was the NK, but we don't have an action priority order.
You are actually right, but just in case

Hear ye, hear ye! Everyone, please refrain from sharing whether or not you felt being protected in any way last night.

I wasn't NK-ed, nor blocked which is weird to me. If we still have an enemy blocker in the game one of their potential result would be actually sniff out the protector role (if we are spilling the beans daily that someone got protected and at one point no one did they may have found the doctor or whatever that is). It's in our best interest to not provide information on who was or wasn't the one doing the protection.
Posted August 18, 2015
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dedoporno: It's in our best interest to not provide information on who was or wasn't the one doing the protection.
You just feel bad because you outed the paladin. ;)
Posted August 18, 2015
Damn. So trent was town after all and so was flubb. The first means that we screwed up big time. The second appears like a strange choice to me, since I think scum could have pushed flubb as the next lynch target instead.

So, what should we do next? I didn't read everything posted today yet, because I don't have much time. So please excuse me if I repeat something that was already said. I'll catch up tomorrow, for now I'll just throw out some questions about things that could be discussed.

1. Should we share what happend around us at night? I mean apart from being protected, which, as dedo suggests, should be kept silent for now so that scum can't ferret out our protective role(s).

2. Perhaps we should, for starters, only state IF we witnessed or were part of any kind of activity, without specifying what it was or if we were the active or passive part. That would perhaps give our tracker(s) and/or watcher(s) something to work with. But it would also give scum some information. My question is only: who would benefit more?

3. If any of you choose to say anything about the night, please don't lie! Not even a bit! You can refuse to reveal whatever you don't want to talk about. But IF you say something, be truthful. Because, like we saw with trent, a townie getting caught at a lie is very bad for town. (sorry, trent)

4. I am still against the mass claim which bler predicted for today.

Well, that's it for now. I have to go to bed.
Posted August 18, 2015
Spit.
Spit.

We deserve two spits this time. Now question becomes, did dedoporno and Lifthrasil set Trent up, or what?

@dedo why does HijacK being blocked indicate two blockers? Roleblocking is the first thing to happen, except for maybe commuter, that's why it can stop the NK. So if flub blocked HijacK, he could still be NK'ed.
Posted August 18, 2015
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Lifthrasil: 1. Should we share what happend around us at night? I mean apart from being protected, which, as dedo suggests, should be kept silent for now so that scum can't ferret out our protective role(s).
You're saying the same thing as dedo, though frankly I don't really see how that helps. You made a very specific claim about being protected N1. That action clearly didn't come from anyone who flipped, so unless someone has spontaneously combusted without us noticing, or you want to assume scum have zero memory, scum presumably already assume there's still one out there. And they wouldn't know whether the person could protect themself or not, so I don't think knowing who was protected really winnows the field meaningfully.

The alternative, of course, is that you lied about being protected (it was arguably the final nail in trent's defense, so not a minor detail), in which case it frankly would have been nice to confirm that someone else was protected N2, or at least force another scum to bluff for you. But the way you and dedo both framed it as an anti-town move makes it fairly difficult for that to come out naturally. Which is a nice play if you are not town.

Frankly I don't see where there's anything to lose, and potentially something for town to gain in knowing if the mystery protection from N1 was around for N2 as well.
Posted August 18, 2015
I'mma go ahead and Vote Lift
Posted August 18, 2015
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bler144: The alternative, of course, is that you lied about being protected (it was arguably the final nail in trent's defense, so not a minor detail), in which case it frankly would have been nice to confirm that someone else was protected N2, or at least force another scum to bluff for you. But the way you and dedo both framed it as an anti-town move makes it fairly difficult for that to come out naturally. Which is a nice play if you are not town.
I think the point of not letting town know if you were protected because it will tell scum there's a doctor is kinda lame. I'm pretty sure, unless Lift lied, everybody at least assumes there's a doctor.

Now what I see valuable in the whole "don't tell us if you were protected" is the case in which scum don't gain any information about who the doctor might find as towny, thus making the doctor's move harder to predict.
Posted August 18, 2015
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HijacK: Now what I see valuable in the whole "don't tell us if you were protected" is the case in which scum don't gain any information about who the doctor might find as towny, thus making the doctor's move harder to predict.
Possible, but I'm a bit skeptical there. I couldn't even predict now who my night action would be on tonight, you know, in theory. If I had one. Theoretically.

I think people are missing the more practical concern.

Possible the game is down to 5-4 or 5-3-1 and for all intents and purposes we're at LyLo. Assuming town has a doctor, there's what, a 1 in 7 chance scum and doctor pick the same target? I'm being lazy on my stats, but it's well under 50%. If we'd hit on D1/D2, or even no-lynched one/both days, we could play conservative. But we didn't.

Could the game be 6-3? Possible. But what the hell does the scum team have to counter the array of power roles town has to make that balanced? Theory - sure, I can make 1-2 of those. But I think we need to know. And frankly, we needed to know yesterday.

The task for town is to lynch with as close to 99.99% as we can get every day and/or figure out what the bleep is going on here. For example, why did town have a Role Blocker?

As an aside, I don't really want to, but think I have to unvote Lift, at least for now.
Posted August 18, 2015
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HijacK: Now what I see valuable in the whole "don't tell us if you were protected" is the case in which scum don't gain any information about who the doctor might find as towny, thus making the doctor's move harder to predict.
This too. I was already in bed when I thought of this.

@bler, the doctor or whatever the role is knows whether or not Lift is lying even at the time of Trent's lynch. The fact that they have decided to remain silent about this makes me think it's the Truth.

@Lift, it's probably best to share ransacked bags and picked brains, so we can try and complete the puzzle. And potentially, if someone has damning information on someone else, that also may be something nice to share or at least t work with.

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Leonard03: @dedo why does HijacK being blocked indicate two blockers? Roleblocking is the first thing to happen, except for maybe commuter, that's why it can stop the NK. So if flub blocked HijacK, he could still be NK'ed.
@Leonard This was already covered by bler and I said he is right. I haven't considered the concept of NK resolving last leaving chance for flub to knock someone out. This is maybe the second time you comment on stuff that were already covered previously. Do you read before posting? Do you read everything or do you just skim through?
Posted August 18, 2015
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Lifthrasil: 1. Should we share what happend around us at night? I mean apart from being protected, which, as dedo suggests, should be kept silent for now so that scum can't ferret out our protective role(s).
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bler144: You're saying the same thing as dedo, though frankly I don't really see how that helps. You made a very specific claim about being protected N1. That action clearly didn't come from anyone who flipped, so unless someone has spontaneously combusted without us noticing, or you want to assume scum have zero memory, scum presumably already assume there's still one out there. And they wouldn't know whether the person could protect themself or not, so I don't think knowing who was protected really winnows the field meaningfully.
That's not the point. The reason of me sharing that I was protected yesterday was to share that one does indeed notice being protected, contrary to what trent was saying with such conviction, which seemed strate to me.
However, the reason for now NOT sharing if one was protected is, that we have to assume that scum may still have a role-blocker or tracker or watcher. Say they have a role-blocker and we have a doctor: if we keep sharing who was protected each night, all scum has to do is roleblock all townies one after the other until one night no one was protected. Then they know that the last blocked person was the doctor. Worse even if they have a tracker/watcher and see someone visiting someone else, who then claims to have been protected. Then they immediately know who the doctor is. Therefore: keep quiet, when you were protected tonight.

Understand now?
Posted August 18, 2015
Blast. Looks like I may have been barking up entirely the wrong tree with questioning bler at the end of yesterday... Er, sorry about that.

Right, then. In any case, this at least gives me a clue that there might not, after all, be a scum roleblocker as well - if there was, I suspect that they'd have targeted me to see if I'd press the attack on bler. Still, given how rusty my logic seems to be, I may well just be rambling. The entire thing may depend on if anyone else was roleblocked, I suppose.

On the subject of last night's events, wouldn't that mean we have to keep quiet about all night actions that occurred to us? Watchers or trackers on the scum side could instead work out protective roles from the conspicuously absent report of a night action if they already know someone was targeted, though I suppose a roleblocker at least couldn't tell. Now I'm beginning to regret bringing the whole business up at the beginning of day 2.
Posted August 18, 2015
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Lifthrasil: The reason of me sharing that I was protected yesterday was to share that one does indeed notice being protected, contrary to what trent was saying with such conviction, which seemed strate to me.
You are aware that Dedo didn't report being protected on night 1 either, right? So is it because one protection worked different than the others, or is one of Dedo or you lying?
Posted August 18, 2015
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JMich: You are aware that Dedo didn't report being protected on night 1 either, right? So is it because one protection worked different than the others, or is one of Dedo or you lying?
I wasn't protected at all. My guess is that if Lift is truthful the protections work in a different way. Trent was literally watching over me, so it's plausible that his protection wasn't detectable (I only knew because I saw him do it). The other protective role may be casting some aura or a magical shield or something of the sorts that is actually visible or can be felt.

I'm not sure I understand what I may be lying about, though. Not being protected when I actually was? Is that what you mean or something else?
Posted August 18, 2015
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dedoporno: I'm not sure I understand what I may be lying about, though. Not being protected when I actually was? Is that what you mean or something else?
Trent claimed to have protected you, even if it wasn't a doctor's protection. You claimed that the only action you were told you received was having your pack searched. Trent flipped town, so he did target you. You claim no knowledge of such an event.
Trent's lynch was sealed due to you claiming no knowledge of trent's protection on yourself, and Lift claiming protections are noticed.
Posted August 18, 2015
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JMich: Trent claimed to have protected you, even if it wasn't a doctor's protection. You claimed that the only action you were told you received was having your pack searched. Trent flipped town, so he did target you. You claim no knowledge of such an event.
Trent's lynch was sealed due to you claiming no knowledge of trent's protection on yourself, and Lift claiming protections are noticed.
Yes, this is all true. I said Trent targeted me even before he flipped Town. That was one of the points.

Like I said earlier, if Lift is telling the truth (we haven't gotten a counter claim to state otherwise and just going for it putting the farm on the possibility there is no other protective role seems too risky to me) the abilities work in a different way.
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General discussionGOG Forum Mafia # 29 - The Deep Smelly Dungeon(1222 posts)(1222 posts)
(1222 posts)