Your scenarios here all seem to make an assumption: dedo is town. What if he is scum?

My entire point was that I might have been visited by two entirely different people. One investigator went through my stuff and Trent watched me and in the process gathered info on the investigator.

It does help, at least to me, since so far I was starting to buy the idea he might actually be a Bodyguard because I couldn't come up with another plausible role that would look and act like what I saw. And now I have one that makes a lot of sense so the odds are again in favor of the lynch in my eyes. In addition that scenario is extra nasty since if Trent is in reality a mafia Watcher he knows who went through my stuff. If scum can't day chat this information is still exclusive to him.

With that in mind I'd rather lynch Trent today and if he flips Town you can go ahead and lynch me Tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure a dead Tracker is worth it a wasted role-block. It's pretty much the same as blocking me anyway, only in a better way.

I'm still strongly against additional claims. Not a fan of no lynch either.


Like I said. You can lynch me Tomorrow if that will help you sleep better.

An accurate assessment of my assumption. I suppose first I would flip the question - if Dedo is scum what's the outcome of lynching Trent? Very bad if Trent is town and Dedo is scum, right?

Could they both be scum? Maybe. But if so this whole day's charade would seem a very bizarre and risky gambit.

So let's assume only dedo is scum as you posit, what happens in this play? then scum RVS the field. Trent is essentially vanilla from their perspective, so he's not a role that hurts them (indeed, maybe slightly helps) so they leave him alive as a vote and go for unknowns.

That said, as noted somewhere above, unless they're both lying (and you'd have to explain why they went down this risky road at all) the facts seem to coalesce around the truth that Dedo is a tracker. How dangerous is a scum tracker? Well, after everyone claims his role would be useless for scum since it seems everyone leaves calling cards anyway, other than Trent, but his claim doesn't allow visitation of others anyway.

So once town mass claims, which I can almost guarantee has to happen D3 and would be better today, he's essentially a vanilla scum. Tracker role makes a lot more sense as town imo.

One other quick question, while I mull this over. You keep saying scum might RVS something. Do you mean they'll pick a player, either randomly or pseudo-randomly, and NK that player?

I admit to some confusion over your use of RVS here, since to me it generally means the Random Vote Stage of Day 1, before anyone has anything to go off of.

Well, this is quite a nightmare to get my head round. Not least that this dagger appears to have been brought up, confirmed and then suddenly turned into a nondescript blade...

Pardon me for asking, but there's a second, and possibly more important, assumption in Bler's statement which is worrying me quite considerably. Bler: How, precisely, do you know the roleblocker is scum? I don't think I know of an ability which would give both role and alignment after one night other than actually being on the scum team...

The assumption that Dedo was town I could understand, but the two combined make me incredibly concerned...

Vote bler144

As I noted in 563, I think making this Dedo vs. Trent is a distraction. We shouldn't be thinking about WHOM we lynch tomorrow, only what sort of scenarios we wake to (strong lead vs. LyLo) depending on the course we take today.

Re-reading 579 I still think it's more likely he was the cop, not a watcher since you slept, and then upon rising saw him moving away from your camp dragging his bag of stuff (with your stuff in it), but your concern is noted. I still think, given the larger setup as we know it, there would have been some telltale marker of you having been watched if he were watching.

His stats also seem incongruent with being a watcher, though his claimed name is arguable, if one thinks there is value in any of these things. I tend to think there's at least >0 amount of relevance, however slim. Aquinas is spelled wrong however ('us' rather than 'as'), so whether that was Yog's misspell in the original setup or Trent misspelling in a bluff because his actual name is Lord Stealsyerstuff, eh, who knows.

We can make a side-bet on whether he flips cop vs. watcher if you like, but imo from what town currently knows it seems irrelevant. If he's not the person who went through your stuff, the only person who would know he's a watcher and not a cop would be the actual cop.

I can appreciate your concern about protecting the other cop, but personally I think the tracker is at least of near or equal value. There's a few assumptions built into that though - from the claims there could be as many as 4 cops, and even with RW dead, I'd wager 1-2 of them are town, probably all role/vanilla. There are things they can do a tracker cannot, and vv.

Also unlikely, but maybe RW visited you. /shrug. It should be apparent to all that, regardless of what action I may or may not have had myself, I did not visit Dedo. Big claim, I know.

Interesting. ;)

Ok, so where did I say I "know" the role-blocker is scum. Is there a post where I say that? I don't believe so. Yes, there are several posts where I take it as a given for building larger analysis or arguments, and am aware I could be wrong. It's a measure of likelihood, not absolutes. I assume Dedo is town, as Wyrm noted above, and I assume even more strongly that if there's a role blocker it's not town.

Could it be town? Possible, but the less likely option in my view. And as Hijack noted, it's better to overestimate your opponents than underestimate them. So barring evidence to the contrary I will continue to assume the role blocker is scum.

Now, that doesn't automatically mean I would throw a lynch vote at someone for claiming role blocker, but in terms of tactical analysis in the present, I think, again barring info to the contrary, that we have to assume in our decision making that the role blocker action is very likely not town. /shrug.

And Wyrm is right that I've made an error - I assumed RVS was the term for any random selection process, I wasn't aware it was meant to refer specifically to day 1. The flaw being that I didn't know what 'S' stood for and didn't bother looking it up. However, even with the clarification I may still continue to use it as short-hand unless there's a better alternative.

The party moved every downward and inward. The incidences of stumbling across small, roving goblin parties increased, but never to the point of serious challenge for the dozen adventurers.

At one point, the party stopped to rest. "You realize it's Saturday," intoned yogsloth, "Which means you're mostly on your own today."

The party grumbled that they had better things to do anyway, like watch paint dry or count the bumps on the ceiling.


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OFFICIAL “NO, NEVERMIND” VOTE COUNT

trentonlf – 4 (Lifthrasil, flubbucket, Bookwyrm627, Leonard03)

bler144 - 1 (QuadrAlien)


Not voting – HijacK, JMich, CSPVG, dedoporno, bler144, trentonlf

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Closest to lynch is trentonlf at L-2

There is not yet a deadline.
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I don't understand this statement.

dead Tracker....wasted role-block....who is blocking you??

Social commitments meant I was offline today, just got home, will catch up asap.

You said 'can' where you meant 'can't' but otherwise that's a good TLDR.

Given the number of potential cop actions in play I'm skeptical we have an alignment cop, not to mention that if there were an alignment cop it would have made sense for it to be the cleric, and RW flipped role cop. I think it more likely we have redundant, or possibly incompetent cops, either of which would offset the sheer numerical power.

Flub addressed much earlier that all the cops seem to be somewhat incompetent in terms of leaving a trace, but also possible that some or all just draw wrong reads.

Caught up with the thread.
So, going by posts , [url=http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_29_the_deep_smelly_dungeon/post501]501 and 521, and invoking LAL (Nothing happened for me. Oh, wait I heard a noise and drew my knife. Actually, it wasn't a knife, it was a blade), I am going to vote trentonlf. Too many little things that just don't fit that well together.

I'll be the hammer then. No one wants to entertain mass claim or no lynch, and dedo and wyrm are about the only people who even really engaged the discussion.

With those off the table voting Trent is the only viable choice. But we'd dang well better be right.

Vote Trent

After hours of trudging through the ever-darkening (and ever-stinkening) maze of the dungeon, arguing with one another all the while, at last the party made a decision.

Shoved forward by the group, trentonlf came to stand next to the wizard. Shaking with fury and terror, he drew his sword and began waving it about wildly. “I have ONLY EVER fought for the cause of righteousness and goodness! This is a terrible travesty of justice! You fools, you fools!”

“Thomas,” whispered yogsloth. trentonlf stilled both his blade and his mouth, though he was quaking in fear. “Are you one? Is it you?” the wizard asked contemplatively. He shook his head sadly. “What should the world be coming to, if even one as noble as you could be tempted to the Dark Side?” He lifted the crystal from his neck, and trentonlf’s eyes instinctively, horrifyingly, were drawn to it.

This time, the shriek was nearly unbearable. With a bright white flash and the howling lament of the damned, trentonlf slumped forward into the dirt, his blade toppling from his hand.

The crystal spoke in a happy purr:

trentonlf is dead, he was: xThomas Equinusx, Human Paladin (TOWN SERAPH BODYGUARD) STR 8 / AGI 5 / CHR 8 / INT 4

“You know,” said yogsloth gravely, “We are really screwed here if you jackoffs don’t start getting this right.”

Before the angry adventurers could begin protesting – or demanding the wizard actually start contributing something himself – the sound of goblin drums began beating. Not in the faint distance, but very… VERY close…

And then the horde was upon them. There was no time for talking, only action. The clang of steel and sizzle of magic rang all about them. With only a handful of lit torches hastily dropped about, the murk was terrifying, and the adventurers had their hands full simply trying to survive…

IT IS NOW NIGHT.

Please do not post in this thread until I initiate Daybreak.

Please send me all night actions as well. If you choose not to use a night action, let me know that too. If you just want to think of synonyms for “WTF”, I’ve started a collection, so feel free to add to it!

Day will break in approximately 48 hours.

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OFFICIAL FINAL DAY TWO VOTE COUNT

trentonlf – 6 (Lifthrasil, flubbucket, Bookwyrm627, Leonard03, JMich, bler144)

bler144 - 1 (QuadrAlien)

Not voting – HijacK, CSPVG, dedoporno, trentonlf

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch
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