Yeah, but it was hard to tell how serious he was. That said, I'd been defending him and he's making it a bit hard at the moment ;) Though I think he's right that adalia oversold the "logical" angle of the vote, esp. since day 1 seems to be kind of a meta-game unto itself. If Flub were behaving this way day 2, I'd be more inclined to clamber on.

I agree with you that we're waiting for a spark, but despite his antics the Flub wagon still feels unsatisfying to me. Though he's pulling a Krypsyn by and large, Kryp also did add some lucidity. Which flub generally has not. That said, the moments when Kryp made his message clear for the masses were what got him NK'ed, so...maybe this is just an attempt at the next iteration.

I'd be curious if Flub would at least explain why he seemed to be pointing at me (albeit seemingly jokingly) and then swung to CSP with an actual vote in the span of a few votes. Does he find us both scummy? Why or why not? Maybe explain why bringing up Jester merits a vote over voting for adalia, with whom flub seems to have the more direct beef?

Let me see if I understand this vote correctly. You are confident in a few people being town and suspect a few are scum, but you don't want to vote for one of the ones you suspect as scum because it might reveal too much of your hand. So you vote for someone you feel has not been contributing and can't get a read on, not one you feel might be scum?

This is DAY ONE, right now there is little to nothing to go on. You suggest we just lynch a random player, get called on it and switch gears to no I only meant we vote to apply pressure. How does this read only to apply pressure "I'm wondering if we shouldn't just pick a player at random and start placing votes... ok, it's not the best way to do it, but odds are that we are going to hit town day 1 anyway, so does it matter which of us we hit?"

Sounds to me like you want to start placing votes on a random player and lynch them and if they wind up being town so what we are most likely to lynch town day one anyway.

After denying you wanted to lynch a random player your solution is to not vote for someone you think might be possible scum but to vote for someone you just can't get a read on. Yeah, this makes perfect sense...

I actually went back and read that same passage as well when I was typing my prior response (and as a typo obvs. I meant "in the span of a few posts" rather than "a few votes")

The charitable read was that he was following through on his gambit to put votes on the table to apply pressure, but having thought about it a bit, it seems the gambit only works if the threat of a real wagon is there, right? If that's the gambit you're going to go for, why explain it first? And if you've already explained it, why follow through?

It's either to give yourself cover (the starting a wagon version of "just kidding"), or an exercise in futility. I'm not sure there's a viable third option, other than hoping no one is paying attention. And to be fair, sometimes we aren't.

I have no problem applying votes for pressure, I do it often when I think someone is behaving scummy. But, why make a plan for everyone to start voting for someone to apply pressure to see how they react. All you are doing is giving scum an out if a townie is lynched. "I only voted for them to apply pressure, and as adaliabooks said what does it matter if we hit town or not at least we got some info on their role"

I want to see this as an over exuberant townie trying to push Day one along, but I am finding it hard to do. Then again my track record from last game is not that good so I am second guessing myself a lot.

I don't know, but is it really a smart thing to say he "should feel some pressure"? If he knows the votes are there just for the sake of pressure he'll come up with a couple of good posts and hast la vista. For future reference, if you want your pressure to be successful don't announce this fact to everybody. If I were posting like flub I would barely care for your votes since a couple of nicely thought excuses and good posts would reduce your votes to little than gut feelings. It's just the way I see it.

A fair point generally. And basically the same observation I made about adalia's gambit/play, no?

Though I think you miss that I've been pretty upfront about the fact that I'm not overly inclined to lynch Flub at present (note I'm not on his wagon), so I wasn't even necessarily talking about the pressure of my own vote, just the wagon in general. The wagon doesn't need my lone vote.

More broadly, if pressure or the threat thereof brings him to the point of even tossing in a couple good posts, I don't see how that's a loss versus what's on the table now. Still seems like a win.

I am mostly curious for him to elaborate on why he voted for CSP despite his beef seemingly being with adalia, or make a case for why others should vote for CSP. I would think he might be willing to speak to that point regardless of his own wagon in any case. Unless he wants the room to think his vote is largely OMGUS. If he's town and thinks CSP is scum (right or wrong) I'd at least like to hear the pitch.

Anyway, think it's bedtime for me. Will try to check in in the a.m. before I hit the road, but no guarantees.

Alrighty sea bit.....errr comrades! Wait. No. That's a communist term and my country literally executed communism. Errrm. Alrighty! Listen up sea maggots! The poop deck won't 'lean itself and the wind is beatin' aback. So get goin' to cleanin' that slum and make it look like Black Beard's treasure! And someone else get those sails down. We ain't makin' any progress here. Arrrrr!

When I quoted you I have not read that far into the thread. I will give you credit for that.

I was talking about the wagon in general as well. A few people here seem to announce their "pressure" tactics once they apply them.

Depends on what you mean by good posts.

Well, it's the suggestion of a Jester, isn't it? The role comes under Bastard Modding (I think someone said earlier Yogsloth finds this distasteful in any case?), and brings up a third party that's tricky to deal with in a case where we should still at this stage approach the game in terms of Town vs Scum.

That said, I'm a little less clear on the logic these days due to playing Town of Salem where Jesters are two-a-penny (not to mention Vengeful).

In any case, despite the rest of Flubbucket's ramblings, I have to agree with the vote. Also, I'm not sure one of my own questions to CSPVG has been answered, but I'll check to see I haven't missed a post. Unvote, Vote CSPVG.

trent and HijacK are right. Adalia's play doesn't make sense. Stating that he suspects some players and then voting for someone not in that pool of suspects, while stating all this explicitely does not exactly create the pressure it is supposed to achieve. So the play doesn't make sense. It is true that flubb behaves very flubby again and has so far been useless. So if we were on a deadline, I would be tempted to vote for him. But we aren't and the fact that it is adalia who threw the first stone makes me hesitate even more. Perhaps they are both scum, perhaps none of them, perhaps adalia is just trying to distract suspicion by offering another target - and since flubbucket's play is always strange he makes a good distraction target.

But all in all I suspect adalia more. The apparent lack of care whom we hit, the rowing back after being called on it and now the poorly motivated vote. ("There are some I feel are scum, but I won't vote for them..." does not seem very townish to me).

So, all in all, I feel it is time to:
vote adaliabooks

You mean like Bookwyrm's vote??

I like this post.

I is the useless....

One more thing about the Jester theory: sure, it is quite possible that flubb is trying to get lynched and is a Jester. But I don't think, that yog would use a game-ending Jester role. That would be a bastard setup of the kind he himself doesn't like. So if we do have a Jester, he will probably be of the kind who just wins for himself without ending the game (we had that in the past. Can't remember in which game). I.e. town could still win after lynching the Jester. So I wouldn't worry too much about a Jester role. If someone acts suspicions, lynch him (or her). At the moment adalia takes the top spot for me. But flubbucket is taking too much pride in being useless. Sure, he often likes to make such jokes, but that's not good for town either.

I'll bet if I was posting Youtube vids like Krypsyn you'd love me.....

Oh, I do love you. I just do not trust you!