Bookwyrm627: You can't ignore the second choice when considering the first choice; one or the other is true (both could be true, but we won't know that until after the game).

(if/then/if/then/this/that/etc. etc. etc.)

HijacK: bookwyrm and adalia were the one's who brought forward a scenario that scum may have not gone for NK on night 3 to gain town points.

It is fascinating how bookwyrm's stance changed and how it is now him omitting scenarios and possibilities, especially since he is the one who came up with it.

Bookwyrm627: How has my stance changed?

Bookwyrm627: You can't ignore the second choice when considering the first choice; one or the other is true (both could be true, but we won't know that until after the game).

HijacK: I recall you being serious when you brought that "possible" scenario up, yet in the following quote you fail to give it the importance and attention you did when you first came up with it. You barely mention it at the end and with a tone of indifference and disinterest.

HijacK: You were sayin' ?

Bookwyrm627: Which scenario are you talking about?

Bookwyrm627: Wait, weren't you the one that talked about how emotions can't be read (or can be faked) in a text environment like this one? Why do you think I'm indifferent or disinterested in whichever scenario we're talking about?

Bookwyrm627: One interesting scenario is if JMich, Flub, and Hijack are the scum team. I'm not sure what role Flub would have gone for, but it doesn't really matter. They go for two protective roles and miss whatever their third role is (vig, role cop, role blocker, whatever). Night 1, Trent dies as a favor to the mod and as a decent town player. Night 2, Lift dies as a leader of town. Night 3, they forgo the night kill. They have two different people that can claim credit (doc, commuter), and they can also try to flush out the role blocker (the last possible town protective role) and maybe get a townie lynch in the bargain. If one of the two protectors gets outed and lynched, the remaining protector gets massive town points for blocking/dodging a kill. JMich keeps his mouth shut (like the doctor should) and just fails to block every other kill in case the tracker tracks him. Hijack commutes on night 3 in case he gets investigated (since a lucky Role Cop investigation could catch him out on the lie if he didn't commute) so no one is left to do the killing anyway (Flub is dead). Hijack has claimed commuter, so he isn't a particularly likely target for being tracked, and he can do the night kills. Neither JMich nor Hijack have been overly helpful through most of the game, depending on who you ask.

Bookwyrm627: You can't ignore the second choice when considering the first choice; one or the other is true (both could be true, but we won't know that until after the game).

If Hijack is scum, then he wasn't the target of the NK. Therefore HSL is the only player who might have had protection on N3. If any other player was targeted for a NK, the target would be dead.

If Hijack flips scum, then we have 2 or the 3 scum identified. If any remaining player besides JMich or HSL are scum, then JMich and HSL have to be town.

If Cristigale is scum, then JMich and HSL are town and JMich told the truth about protecting HSL. This means only HSL could have been the target of a NK, because no one else was protected. So either JMich and HSL are town, or scum didn't NK.

If JMich is scum, then he couldn't have performed the NK because town Cristi saw him visit HSL. Only HSL is protected, so Hijack couldn't have killed anyone either. I suppose technically Hijack could have targeted HSL for the kill, and JMich could have protected HSL, but I discount this as lousy scum play because the town tracker wasn't identified yet. Besides, I can lump that into "Scum chose not to NK someone".

If HSL is scum, then once again no one else is protected. Technically, HSL could have targeted Hijack for a kill while Hijack commuted to dodge it (so scum are choosing not to NK someone). And again, I see this as lousy scum play when Hijack claims commuter so early, and HSL claims vanilla before the town tracker has been located.

yogsloth: ...because that would mean the whole thing was faked, obviously, with the commuter claim to buy Town credibility.

...and therefore this buys no other player Town points.

I mean, hello...?

HypersomniacLive: One could say you're a bit anxious to end D5...

HijacK: Look at it from this perspective. If we go back to your scenario and I'm scum, then how does that clear JMich or HSL? What if JMich or HSL is my scum buddy? How do you know we truly didn't choose to not NK in order to gain town points? It goes for either partner. If I'm scum how does that clear anyone in this game? Heck, if people's reactions are true you may be my scum buddy as well and our fighting would be meant only to distance form each other and fool others.

Heck, if this the no NK scenario is possible, as you have said in the past, why wouldn't this one be too?

HijacK: I can however see the disinterest since you don't give it a priority.

yogsloth: I'm bored to bloody tears.

Do you really want to sit here and listen to wrym and Țepeș fling fluffballs at each other for another week?

So another question - are you willing to not cast a vote and go to no-lynch yet again? Do you believe that's a good and correct play to make?

Bookwyrm627: And now you're ignoring half my statement to try and discredit the other half. I didn't say JMich and HSL are cleared for sure. I said that EITHER JMich and HSL are town, OR scum chose not to kill anyone on N3. I've demonstrated why, and you even quoted it. We can use your corpse to narrow the possibilities, and everyone can decide for themselves whether they think the kill was blocked or not taken.

Bookwyrm627: As for you and me being scum buddies: Outside the context of "I'm town", I don't think I've ever said it was impossible for you and I to be scum buddies. I have said it is highly unlikely. Can you show everyone where I've tried to prove we can't be scum buddies?

HijacK: I've already outlined the possible Flub/JMich/Hijack scum team, as you so nicely showed everyone. Of course, you forgot to add the line right above it: "Note: I don't know that this next bit is the case. It just seems like a possibility to me."

Bookwyrm627: I am exceptionally interested in identifying the remaining scum, regardless of whether it is you and JMich.

HypersomniacLive: Then go do something useful, like analysing scenarios, do rereads based on them, and see if you've missed something or if something sticks out. Or you could make an effort to follow the discussions as something might pop-up. Or see what is not happening while their argument goes on. But that's not your play-style, is it? It's all about Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote Now!

Not sure if you really don't get what I'm doing, or just pretend to not get it - I'm working my way to making a decision. If you don't have the patience, even though we still have plenty of time, then that is your problem, and I can't help you with it.

JMich: Eventually. I was waiting to see if the proposed "alliance" could make a decent case for either of the two before I say my gut feelings, since I have already posted the possibilities I see for those two. After all, if I say I think X is town, the "alliance" will see it as a sign that X is scum.

Bookwyrm627: What is your criteria for answering?