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General discussionEnhancing the discussion value? What are the classical works and where is their video game adaptation?(82 posts)(82 posts)
(82 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 21, 2015
I'm probably just getting old and grumpy but I do think that the discussion value of the forums (not only gog mind you - and I still very much like it here) has been deteriorating. The threads are getting more meaningless by the day, Facebook and other social media just shares the same bullshit again and again and again as if people have shorter and shorter memory cycles.
I haven't even started to talk about Peter Molyneux lying AGAIN and everyone seems to have forgotten that this is actually pretty normal.

Now this shouldn't turn into too much of a rant so let me try to enhance the discussion value here.

To start I just assume we all agree that video-games are an art form. I'm in favour of that, but I grant you that this might debatable, but please just play along for the time being if you don't mind.

If video games are art, where are the classical interpretations of our literature canon?

Where is Shakespeare's Hamlet in video game form?
What about a "re"-playable Mac-Beth?
Or internationally:
Homer's Odyssey? Don't dare talk about the abysmal "Rise of the Argonauts" here.
Works from Earnest Hemingway, Mark Twain anyone?

So this was just tackling literature, what about philosophers or scientists?
Where are the adaptations of their work represented in video games?
Do we have those games? Are they any good? What do you think?

What about operas, music, architecture and other fields of art?
I submit to you that art normally works together, especially in modern times.
Films about Shakespeare featuring classical music scores.
Musicals about famous canonic literature etc.

What about video games then?
Post edited February 21, 2015 by Khadgar42
Posted February 21, 2015
Well there is Age of Mythology.

I actually thought there take on the Trojan War was pretty cool.

That reminds me, I should try some Mozart on "Symphony" Probably fry my computer. :P
Posted February 21, 2015
I'm not sure I grasp your meaning. Do you mean why aren't there video game adaptations of Shakespeare or do you mean what is the video game equivalent of the works of Shakespeare?
Posted February 21, 2015
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adaliabooks: [...] why aren't there video game adaptations of Shakespeare [...]
Closer to this question, though I'm probably not aware of video games that tackle Shakespeare, so maybe they are...

Just think that the Lion King musical is arguably a Hamlet "rip off", if you don't mind me saying.
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tinyE: Well there is Age of Mythology.

I actually thought there take on the Trojan War was pretty cool.
[...]
Agreed!
Me too, totally out of canon to bash the walls of Troja with a dozen multi-headed hydræ but way more fun...
Post edited February 21, 2015 by Khadgar42
Posted February 21, 2015
There are several, though I haven't played them yet. Daedalic has versions of Romeo & Juliet and Midsummer Night's Dream, and there's a cartoony low-budget indie Hamlet kicking around out there as well. Probably more, these are just the ones I know off the top of my head (and own).

Also, there's a side-scroller inspired by T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land on sale on Steam, though I gather it's a rather loose adaptation. And I recently picked up something else literary that I'll probably never play, based on how funny the idea was - it's slipping my mind now just what it was.
Post edited February 21, 2015 by LinustheBold
Posted February 21, 2015
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adaliabooks: [...] why aren't there video game adaptations of Shakespeare [...]
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Khadgar42: Closer to this question, though I'm probably not aware of video games that tackle Shakespeare, so maybe they are...

Just think that the Lion King musical is arguably a Hamlet "rip off", if you don't mind me saying.
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tinyE: Well there is Age of Mythology.

I actually thought there take on the Trojan War was pretty cool.
[...]
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Khadgar42: Agreed!
Me too, totally out of canon to bash the walls of Troja with a dozen multi-headed hydræ but way more fun...
I just loved the line about the horse, "Will it fight?"
Posted February 21, 2015
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Khadgar42: I submit to you that art normally works together, especially in modern times.
Films about Shakespeare featuring classical music scores.
Musicals about famous canonic literature etc.
There are games based on classic literary works, like American McGee's Alice, a whole series of Dracula or Sherlock Holmes games, but that is beside the point.

Cinema isn't art because it adapts Shakespeare, but because Orson Welles made Citizen Kane. Comics did not become art because someone adapted some classic works for the medium, but because Will Eisner wrote A Contract with God (I am of course simplifying a bit with single examples). Games don't need an adaptation of Gilgamesh, Illiad or The Unbearable Lightness of Being. They need their own classics. And they have them. Not quite on the level of Homer for sure, but it's a very different medium, and still a young one too. But we're getting there. Games keep exploring the unique ways of telling a story through gameplay, that is the key. Not Telltale making a adaptation of Hamlet or something like that.
Post edited February 21, 2015 by Breja
Posted February 21, 2015
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Breja: There are games based on classic literary works, like American McGee's Alice, a whole series of Dracula or Sherlock Holmes games, but that is beside the point.
I don't think it is besides the point, because adaptation creates new ideas as well and in paying homage you get a very powerful tool and much more appealing. That doesn't mean that all art has to do is copy pasting but art wouldn't work without copy pasting either.
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Breja: Cinema isn't art because it adapts Shakespeare, but because Orson Welles made Citizen Kane. Comics did not become art because someone adapted some classic works for the medium, but because Will Eisner wrote A Contract with God (I am of course simplifying a bit with single examples).
I hope you are not seriously thinking that Kenneth Branagh's TV Version of Hamlet is less an art than that of Orson Welles' Citizen Kane. Maybe one is more original than the other but both are critically acclaimed masterpieces of art.
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Breja: Games don't need an adaptation of Gilgamesh, Illiad or The Unbearable Lightness of Being. They need their own classics. And they have them. Not quite on the level of Homer for sure, but it's a very different medium, and still a young one too. But we're getting there. Games keep exploring the unique ways of telling a story through gameplay, that is the key. Not Telltale making a adaptation of Hamlet or something like that.
The point I'm making here is that they need both (adaptions and their own classics) to be successful and to be accepted as art by a majority of the society and we are far from it. And it is already late, especially considering how old the video game media is and how fast Radio TV and basically Hollywood is regarded today.
Posted February 21, 2015
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Khadgar42: I'm probably just getting old and grumpy but I do think that the discussion value of the forums (not only gog mind you - and I still very much like it here) has been deteriorating. The threads are getting more meaningless by the day, Facebook and other social media just shares the same bullshit again and again and again as if people have shorter and shorter memory cycles.
I haven't even started to talk about Peter Molyneux lying AGAIN and everyone seems to have forgotten that this is actually pretty normal.

Now this shouldn't turn into too much of a rant so let me try to enhance the discussion value here.

To start I just assume we all agree that video-games are an art form. I'm in favour of that, but I grant you that this might debatable, but please just play along for the time being if you don't mind.

If video games are art, where are the classical interpretations of our literature canon?

Where is Shakespeare's Hamlet in video game form?
What about a "re"-playable Mac-Beth?
Or internationally:
Homer's Odyssey? Don't dare talk about the abysmal "Rise of the Argonauts" here.
Works from Earnest Hemingway, Mark Twain anyone?

So this was just tackling literature, what about philosophers or scientists?
Where are the adaptations of their work represented in video games?
Do we have those games? Are they any good? What do you think?

What about operas, music, architecture and other fields of art?
I submit to you that art normally works together, especially in modern times.
Films about Shakespeare featuring classical music scores.
Musicals about famous canonic literature etc.

What about video games then?
I'd agree that video games are a form of art, as are movies, TV shows, broadway, or other audio/visual forms. Anything can be art really, it's all in the eye of the beholder - it's an individual thing.

As for where is the Shakespeare of video games, well... in many ways I think it's right here on GOG. Take for example the original Zork series of games - those are very very old and despite what anyone's definition of "old classic" might be for video games, I think that Zork would totally fit any possible valid definition and be amongst the "Shakespearian" of video games as it were.

As for classical literature in video game form though, I'm not sure about that one. Could someone take such literature and create a game that was playable and fun? To game or not to game, that is the question! :)
Posted February 21, 2015
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Khadgar42:
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skeletonbow: I'd agree that video games are a form of art, as are movies, TV shows, broadway, or other audio/visual forms. Anything can be art really, it's all in the eye of the beholder - it's an individual thing.
I've gotten into some pretty nasty fights defending this position. Where the hell were you!? :P
Posted February 21, 2015
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skeletonbow: I'd agree that video games are a form of art, as are movies, TV shows, broadway, or other audio/visual forms. Anything can be art really, it's all in the eye of the beholder - it's an individual thing.
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tinyE: I've gotten into some pretty nasty fights defending this position. Where the hell were you!? :P
I would go even further than that, it's not even an individual thing. I don't like cubism or the provocative pieces of Joseph Beuys' but I do see that they are art. Most artists die poor and misunderstood, hundreds of years afterwards their paintings are of unimaginable value. Why? Because humans are stupid and take time to realize beauty. If you start with "eye of the beholder" thing you can just start saying how stupid society was for not appreciate art when the artist lived.
I hope I'll see the day when "classics" like Fallout, Grim Fandango or Baldurs' Gate (insert endless list of preciously good games here) enter the curriculum of school's art classes and when they are publicly discussed as artistic masterpieces in comparison to the Mona Lisa and "The Four Seasons" by Verdi.
But instead I fear that future sentient beings will simply belittle our stupidity that we (as society) didn't appreciate the beauty and form these games represent.
Post edited February 21, 2015 by Khadgar42
Posted February 21, 2015
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skeletonbow: I'd agree that video games are a form of art, as are movies, TV shows, broadway, or other audio/visual forms. Anything can be art really, it's all in the eye of the beholder - it's an individual thing.
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tinyE: I've gotten into some pretty nasty fights defending this position. Where the hell were you!? :P
I´d guess trying to figure out which of the eyes of The Beholder holds the art.
Posted February 21, 2015
Oh, blah blah blah! Oh, me! Oh, how the world is deteriorating around me! Oh, how my beloved video game forums have become tiresome! Oh, why do video game developers not create great works like Hamlet!

Oh, why are the things I have poured my life into not fulfilling to me!

Oh, me! Oh, my! I have no peace in my life, but I suspect the causes to be other people and what they do or do not do!

I have no peace of my own. I create no art of my own. I imbue nothing with meaning. I am an empty shell shifting away piece by piece like sand. Oh, come and fill me! Oh, come and fulfill me!
Posted February 21, 2015
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LoboBlanco: I´d guess trying to figure out which of the eyes of The Beholder holds the art.
The small one, on the left. Next to the, wait is the image mirror inverted? Anyway, the one looking at me.
Posted February 21, 2015
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skeletonbow: I'd agree that video games are a form of art, as are movies, TV shows, broadway, or other audio/visual forms. Anything can be art really, it's all in the eye of the beholder - it's an individual thing.
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tinyE: I've gotten into some pretty nasty fights defending this position. Where the hell were you!? :P
Really? Wow.. Um, probably playing Mount & Blade or Skyrim, sorry! LOL I've not been as active in the forums a bit in the last few months due to these games sucking up all my time. ;oP

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tinyE: I've gotten into some pretty nasty fights defending this position. Where the hell were you!? :P
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LoboBlanco: I´d guess trying to figure out which of the eyes of The Beholder holds the art.
Funny you say that because whenever I use that expression, the gamer and D&D'er inside me always pictures the artwork of the beholder from the original pen and paper D&D dungeon master guides in my head, with it's evil ear to ear smile. Either that or those "cacodemons" from the original DOOM which are just a beholder with a different name. :)
Post edited February 21, 2015 by skeletonbow
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionEnhancing the discussion value? What are the classical works and where is their video game adaptation?(82 posts)(82 posts)
(82 posts)