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I know your agreements with publishers/developers are secret and long-winded legalese...

But can you try to start including a clause such that a developer MUST keep the GOG version on part with the versions elsewhere (no missing patches, etc), else they forfeit their share of sales until they do return parity [sic] (minus a cut during the wait, of course...). And of course that you can continue to sell the product (not profiting them) in the meantime?

This is kind of imperative for the success and HEALTH of GOG in the face of a near monopolistic competitor.


https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/no_more_outdated_or_abandoned_games
Post edited August 31, 2016 by mqstout
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mqstout: I know your agreements with publishers/developers are secret and long-winded legalese...

But can you try to start including a clause such that a developer MUST keep the GOG version on part with the versions elsewhere (no missing patches, etc), else they forfeit their share of sales until they do return parity [sic] (minus a cut during the wait, of course...). And of course that you can continue to sell the product (not profiting them) in the meantime?

This is kind of imperative for the success and HEALTH of GOG in the face of a near monopolistic competitor.

https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/no_more_outdated_or_abandoned_games
Sorry, I can just see them putting thier caring faces on right now. Just look at Armelo release today, seems to be totally the opposite of what tour asking for.
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mqstout:
I agree with you.
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mqstout:
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mm324: I agree with you.
Me too ;D
(even if I was thinking at some kind of penalty, more than forfeiting sales)

.
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nightcraw1er.488: [..]seems to be totally the opposite of what tour asking for.
That's why we're asking :P
Post edited August 31, 2016 by phaolo
I get angry as much as the next guy whenever I see the GOG version of game lag behind in terms of updates, but I'm not sure a measure such as the one proposed by the OP would be beneficial.

I mean, sure, lazy devs that don't plan on keeping their games up to date would most probably never release them here, and in the long run the percentage of outdated games in GOG's catalogue would be drastically reduced. But on the other hand, I'm afraid some decent and responsible devs would be turned off by that clause, even if they honestly intended to send new patches and updates to GOG asap.
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muntdefems: I get angry as much as the next guy whenever I see the GOG version of game lag behind in terms of updates, but I'm not sure a measure such as the one proposed by the OP would be beneficial.

I mean, sure, lazy devs that don't plan on keeping their games up to date would most probably never release them here, and in the long run the percentage of outdated games in GOG's catalogue would be drastically reduced. But on the other hand, I'm afraid some decent and responsible devs would be turned off by that clause, even if they honestly intended to send new patches and updates to GOG asap.
I don't understand your logic. If a dev intends to keep a game updated and patched why would they be turned off by a clause that just asks them to do what they already planned to do?

If GOG doesn't do something the problem will only get worse as they continue to bring in new(er) games.
I think you just highlighted why a vast vast majority of developers/publishers do not sell their games here, because they don't want to maintain multiple builds of their game. Especially if it's a smaller studio where resources are limited. I would think (hope?) that GoG has some sort of clause in any agreement they sign with a publisher that the game must be updated in a timely manner. GoG cannot control what the publisher does on other platforms and frankly it shouldn't be GoG's business to do so anyway. What they should care about is whatever game is sold here is updated and patched as needed.
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muntdefems: I get angry as much as the next guy whenever I see the GOG version of game lag behind in terms of updates, but I'm not sure a measure such as the one proposed by the OP would be beneficial.

I mean, sure, lazy devs that don't plan on keeping their games up to date would most probably never release them here, and in the long run the percentage of outdated games in GOG's catalogue would be drastically reduced. But on the other hand, I'm afraid some decent and responsible devs would be turned off by that clause, even if they honestly intended to send new patches and updates to GOG asap.
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mm324: I don't understand your logic. If a dev intends to keep a game updated and patched why would they be turned off by a clause that just asks them to do what they already planned to do?

If GOG doesn't do something the problem will only get worse as they continue to bring in new(er) games.
Because it's a legal promise and they can be sued if something goes wrong. Businesses are very, very wary of signing enforceable promises, especially vague ones. Also, it's not standard in the industry and anything out of the ordinary means extra paperwork and lawyer cost, again a barrier to releasing on GOG.

What happens if a certain feature depends on client functionality GOG doesn't have? What if the major developer breaks a leg and can't get to a GOG patch for 6 months after the Steam patch? What if the studio goes under but years later someone is able to start working on the game again, and can only support one version so they choose Steam (true story, happened to one of my favorite games)?

There are all of these unknowns which make businesses not want to sign open-ended promises. Specific deliverables on specific dates are good, but 'we will keep the game updated' is not specific at all, and anything that boils down to that will turn responsible people off. Irresponsible people will sign anything and not follow through. So even if GOG were to try and add a clause demanding patches, I don't think it would help.

The best way to get people to release on GOG is to lower barriers. This is true of software adoption and system use in general. I hope that GOG is building ways for devs to submit patches quickly, easily, and as similar to Steam as possible while keeping it DRM-free because that means we will get more patches.
Post edited August 31, 2016 by Gilozard
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synfresh: I think you just highlighted why a vast vast majority of developers/publishers do not sell their games here, because they don't want to maintain multiple builds of their game. Especially if it's a smaller studio where resources are limited. I would think (hope?) that GoG has some sort of clause in any agreement they sign with a publisher that the game must be updated in a timely manner. GoG cannot control what the publisher does on other platforms and frankly it shouldn't be GoG's business to do so anyway. What they should care about is whatever game is sold here is updated and patched as needed.
But a properly engineered product DOESN'T require an additional build. They engineer their products badly if it's any hassle for them.
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mqstout: I know your agreements with publishers/developers are secret and long-winded legalese...

But can you try to start including a clause such that a developer MUST keep the GOG version on part with the versions elsewhere (no missing patches, etc), else they forfeit their share of sales until they do return parity [sic] (minus a cut during the wait, of course...). And of course that you can continue to sell the product (not profiting them) in the meantime?

This is kind of imperative for the success and HEALTH of GOG in the face of a near monopolistic competitor.

https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/no_more_outdated_or_abandoned_games
Agreed. Stuff like this is sensible. Make it so.
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synfresh: I think you just highlighted why a vast vast majority of developers/publishers do not sell their games here, because they don't want to maintain multiple builds of their game. Especially if it's a smaller studio where resources are limited. I would think (hope?) that GoG has some sort of clause in any agreement they sign with a publisher that the game must be updated in a timely manner. GoG cannot control what the publisher does on other platforms and frankly it shouldn't be GoG's business to do so anyway. What they should care about is whatever game is sold here is updated and patched as needed.
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mqstout: But a properly engineered product DOESN'T require an additional build. They engineer their products badly if it's any hassle for them.
10/10 completely agreed this one
+1

A day will come, it might be 6 months from now, or 12, or 24, or even 48. But a day will come, when GOG is big enough, getting a healthy influx of highly profitable newer and release day games including AAA games, and getting a bigger % of the market away from Steam than they do now. At some point in that timeline, GOG stands more to gain and less to lose by axing games and/or developers from the catalogue who do not support their games equally here as they do elsewhere.

Right now GOG seems to tolerate it which makes me assume that GOG needs these games and developers more than the developers need GOG. Think about that.

I hope that this situation reverses eventually and that GOG kicks out the chaff.
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mm324: I don't understand your logic. If a dev intends to keep a game updated and patched why would they be turned off by a clause that just asks them to do what they already planned to do?

If GOG doesn't do something the problem will only get worse as they continue to bring in new(er) games.
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Gilozard: Because it's a legal promise and they can be sued if something goes wrong. Businesses are very, very wary of signing enforceable promises, especially vague ones. Also, it's not standard in the industry and anything out of the ordinary means extra paperwork and lawyer cost, again a barrier to releasing on GOG.

What happens if a certain feature depends on client functionality GOG doesn't have? What if the major developer breaks a leg and can't get to a GOG patch for 6 months after the Steam patch? What if the studio goes under but years later someone is able to start working on the game again, and can only support one version so they choose Steam (true story, happened to one of my favorite games)?

There are all of these unknowns which make businesses not want to sign open-ended promises. Specific deliverables on specific dates are good, but 'we will keep the game updated' is not specific at all, and anything that boils down to that will turn responsible people off. Irresponsible people will sign anything and not follow through. So even if GOG were to try and add a clause demanding patches, I don't think it would help.

The best way to get people to release on GOG is to lower barriers. This is true of software adoption and system use in general. I hope that GOG is building ways for devs to submit patches quickly, easily, and as similar to Steam as possible while keeping it DRM-free because that means we will get more patches.
Your hypotheticals could happen. What is happening is that people are telling their friends not to buy new(er) games here because it may or may not be patched/updated. If you don't believe me look through the threads.
This issue is hurting their potential sales.

And as I said before, it's only going to get worse if GOG doesn't do something soon. And I don't mean GOG's definition of soon.
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synfresh: I think you just highlighted why a vast vast majority of developers/publishers do not sell their games here, because they don't want to maintain multiple builds of their game. Especially if it's a smaller studio where resources are limited. I would think (hope?) that GoG has some sort of clause in any agreement they sign with a publisher that the game must be updated in a timely manner. GoG cannot control what the publisher does on other platforms and frankly it shouldn't be GoG's business to do so anyway. What they should care about is whatever game is sold here is updated and patched as needed.
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mqstout: But a properly engineered product DOESN'T require an additional build. They engineer their products badly if it's any hassle for them.
Of course it does. What if the developer wants to include steamworks? What if a certain build of the game only has hooks for specific steam functions (like trading cards)? If you want to see it here, you have to maintain a client that has that stuff removed. That's a separate build.
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mqstout: I know your agreements with publishers/developers are secret and long-winded legalese...

But can you try to start including a clause such that a developer MUST keep the GOG version on part with the versions elsewhere (no missing patches, etc), else they forfeit their share of sales until they do return parity [sic] (minus a cut during the wait, of course...). And of course that you can continue to sell the product (not profiting them) in the meantime?

This is kind of imperative for the success and HEALTH of GOG in the face of a near monopolistic competitor.

https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/no_more_outdated_or_abandoned_games
can i just say, that your username makes me want a really really dark beer.