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mechmouse: DRM in itself is not "evil" or wrong.
It is because it restricts you from using software which you bought. For real money. Few examples:

1. Many years ago i bought discs with Etherlords 1 and 2, Silent Storm protected by DRM. When i switched to Win7 DRM said: i can't work with this new OS so go away - i won't let you play in your games anymore! To be clear: pirated versions worked fine, when i bought this games on GOG - they worked also quite nice on new hardware/Win7. So the problem was only in DRM. And yes, i had to buy them from GOG second time because of this <censored> DRM. Same games that i already own. And if there were no crack of GOG present, than what?

2. Whole recent Myanmar story when few people with power decide that your contry is bad and all money you payed is gong to trash bin (yep, no warning or refund): https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/5a51e2/ea_games_and_origin_quietly_bans_an_entire/
Hmm, by the way, Denuvo (On MGSV) isn't Always-On right? I can play for a week or two in steam's offline mode?

Also, is there a possibility that Dishonored 2 will be Always-Online? I read that the Vulkan version of DOOM is Always-Online, in which case I'd rather Run Like Hell from anything Bethesda does after 2016 (which is a shame, cause Skyrim has to be my favorite game ever.)
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Hey Bethesda: You don't trust me with your game, I don't trust you with my money.
Post edited November 05, 2016 by Randalator
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mechmouse: Have to disagree. Rise of the Tomb Raider was an improvement over TR2014 which in itself was a good game.
Gameplay? Less variable that Uncharted 4. For example, no levels where you ride a car.
Graphics and detail is nothing special comparing to Uncharted 4.
Story? It is TERRIBLE and DISGUSTING! Especially, from Russian eyes: the story, characters and even some quests is awful. For example, quest where you need to burn posters with Russian cosmonauts. These men and women explored space for all the humanity, like US astronauts, and some of them payed their lives for this. All other thing is also terrible starting from extremely strange locals, problems from other countries (like cage-houses from Hong Kong) transferred to Russia and helicopter boss in the end.

And yes, i hold no love for communists or USSR (my ancestors was cossacks and suffered from them quite a lot), but this... This... I just don't have any words to describe how BAD and DISGUSTING this story, characters and background.
Post edited November 05, 2016 by Andrey82
Phew...it's only another Bethesda Softworks game, I stopped caring for their new releases a long time ago. :D
Post edited November 05, 2016 by NuffCatnip
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NuffCatnip: Phew...it's only another Bethesda Softworks game, I stopped caring for their new releases a long time ago. :D
Me too, but with one exeption - Wolfenstein: New Colossus. Wolfenstein: New Order and Old Blood was a good games, so i look forward to New Colossus.
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GR00T: Not sure what the big deal is. I got Dragon Age:Inquisition on sale for a pretty decent price, so pulled the trigger. It's also a Denuvo 'protected' game (not to mention being tied to Origin as well). I had exactly zero issues playing the game. Not a fan of DRM, but I really haven't seen any issues with Denuvo from my experience.
Why would anyone expect issues when playing a game? That doesn't diminishes the fact that it's using DRM.
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mechmouse: Denuvo itself appears to be "harmless". Reports of thrashing SSD's appear to be over exaggerated.
Denuvo is far for harmless. The one reason why many people won't care about Steam DRM is that they lied about take it out if they ever stopped the business. Or alternatively the fact that cracks are around.
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fishbaits: The game, as others with Denuvo, will still end up being cracked & pirated, so the only ones this inconveniences is the rest of us that would've paid for the game.
Maybe, maybe not. Denuvo is working. Of the newest denuvo incarnation, only 5 games have been cracked and 20+ haven't. And the cracked ones took a while. Which works fine for publishers. Which is why more and more games are carrying it. And that might end up affecting GOG.

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mechmouse: DRM in itself is not "evil" or wrong.
Looks pretty wrong to me. Consumer rights down the drain and all that.

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mechmouse: Our Xboxes and Playstations are full of DRM, but their implementation is not abused.
I don't understand this. Their implementation is as bad as in PCs. Back in the day, when retail was a thing and 0 day patches weren't and games worked out of the box, maybe, But right now they have all the power. And take your online away -as in, you know, let's stop ps3/x360, and say goodbye to your collections-.
Post edited November 05, 2016 by rgnrk
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Andrey82: Denuvo is not DRM, it is an antitamper which protects DRM from debugging. For example: Steam verefication is DRM, Denuvo protects it from hackers.
That might have been the case when it started. The new version of Denuve, the one that wasn't cracked up until Rise Of The Tombraider has their own authentication servers. So basically it is DRM.
You don't just have to wait for Steam/Origin/UPlay to stop keeping your games. If Denuvo stops their own servers, your games will stop working.

* GENERAL RANT *

With the complex encryption of Denuvo we can forget that companies like GOG will make them work in newer systems like with your 20 year old games. When publisher support ends, these games will die slowly.

Denuvo is a huge danger to game preservation.
(... and that's great for publishers, as they will have legitimate reasons for making remakes and remasters over and over again)
Post edited November 05, 2016 by rgnrk
Tell me about it.

I have to skip PES 2017 because of it, and I was really eager to play it. Worse yet, there's no mention of 3rd party DRM on Steam, I found out about it by accident when browsing the game.
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rgnrk: * GENERAL RANT *

With the complex encryption of Denuvo we can forget that companies like GOG will make them work in newer systems like with your 20 year old games. When publisher support ends, these games will die slowly.

Denuvo is a huge danger to game preservation.
(... and that's great for publishers, as they will have legitimate reasons for making remakes and remasters over and over again)
Developers/Publishers: "We are artists! We create art! Respect our artsiness!"
Gaming community: "Dudes, your DRM stance is very likely to purge your art from the world in just a few years."
Developers/Publishers: "Oh, we don't give a fuck. We don't make money from that shit anymore, anyway. It's just an obsolete product."
Oh well. Aslong as it works and doesn't interfere with the game or PC, I don't care.
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GR00T: Not sure what the big deal is.
I didn't really have any major issues when playing some streaming games on the Onlive service (some free games they offered for a limited time). It was even nifty I could play games that wouldn't otherwise run on that laptop I used for playing them (an old Lenovo ThinkPad T400).

Yet, I do realize the reasons why I don't like the idea of streaming games for single-player games. Hence, I don't buy such games.
Post edited November 05, 2016 by timppu
DRM is just assuming every potential consumer is a thief. It is just insulting. + In the case of Denuvo it introduce a security backdoor with direct root access to hardware. And the most documented persons right now about Denuvo are their employees and hackers. I never met Denuvo team in person, I don't know who these guys are (they may be great guys or pedophile, I just don't know them). Thus I don't allowed them enter to secure someone else interest and introducing security issue on my computer.
Post edited November 05, 2016 by Svenos
Well, there are still probably loads of other Pubs and Devs that won't jump onto the Denuvo bandwagon. And the ones that do will probably remove it from their games years from now anyway.
The greatest argument I've seen against Denuvo is that things like DSFix (and probably the unofficial VTM:B fixes/mods) wouldn't be possible if Dark Souls had used it. Because developers always release games in stellar shape. Then there are the game preservation concerns down the line, and the fact that it basically gives publishers yet another avenue to kill off old games to "encourage" people to buy newer incarnations.

I get that it's not an immediate problem and practically invisible for many players as a result, but that doesn't mean that it's harmless. Especially in the long run if it becomes so accepted that it sees greater adoption.

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JK41R4: Well, there are still probably loads of other Pubs and Devs that won't jump onto the Denuvo bandwagon. And the ones that do will probably remove it from their games years from now anyway.
Yeah. In the Game of the Millennium Super Deluxe Repackaged Edition that forces you to rebuy the game to have continued support.