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cjrgreen: However, stability and non-scarcity (not scarcity; the notion that a currency should be artificially scarce is foolish, unhistorical, and the worst kind of quack economics) are the true characteristics of useful money, legal tender or otherwise. Bitcoins have already failed on both counts.
That's its biggest problem. More can't quickly be created and bitcoins cannot be taken out of circulation because of scarcity.
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Trilarion: That last bit I don't understand. Gold was used for a long time as a payment/currency and the really nice thing about it was, that you could not produce it, while paper money tended to end in hyper-inflations or just becoming completely zero-valued. So what's exactly so foolish, unhistorical and quack economics about backing up a currency with a strictly limited resource?
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DarrkPhoenix: It's not quite correct to say that gold was used as currency, but rather that gold was often used to produce coins which we then used as currency. However, when this was done the face value of the coins was typically set a little higher than the actual value of the gold in the coins. Additionally, these currencies would begin to fail when the value of gold increased resulting in the gold in the coins being worth more than the face value of the coins (at this point people would stop using the coins as currency and start just melting them down for the gold). New coins would have to be minted that once again had a gold content a bit below the face value of the coin. Basically stability of the currency had to be maintained by ensuring that new coins could be minted and issued as needed (in other words that there wasn't inherent scarcity).
Which is why in order for that to work, you have to declare gold to be worth a specific amount and probably bar people from owning any as well. But when all is said and done, you still have something of value rather than a series of 0s and 1s which have no value of any sort without people accepting the currency.

Hell, even in Germany during their hyperinflation, you could still use the money as fuel to heat the home. Making it just barely more value than what bitcoins will be when people lose interest in them.
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wpegg: Dammit, I'm going to invent a currency. It will be called EncryptoChips! They will be unhackable, decentralised, basically just like bitcoins. The key difference - This time, I'll be the one to give half that sodding currency to myself, as opposed to the evil con-artists at BitCoin. Then I'll do the easy work of pumping it, recruiting evangelist followers to promote it, getting a bit of media hype. Then while that's running I'll bleed my half out the market, should take about 1 year. That will net me a few million, then I'll just let things take their course. Maybe it will last, maybe it won't, I'll have my cash.

Why can people not see that this is what they did?
Because noone did that yet and it wouldnt work anyway. You cannot just suddenly convert that many bitcoins into other currency because this would drop the price of the coins and make the rest worthless again. I think there was a link in a previous post about how someone tried to convert coins worth 1000$ and immediatly the price dropped from 20$ into cents per coins.
A lot of people are hoarding coins for the hope of selling them later. This does make the price go up but keeps the flow of coins down. And if only so few coins flow between users noone is going to buy any large amount for the high price, making all your coins basicly worthless again.

It may be used as a scam in theory, but it would not work. So i doubt the creators of bitcoins had such intentions.
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wpegg: Dammit, I'm going to invent a currency. It will be called EncryptoChips! They will be unhackable, decentralised, basically just like bitcoins. The key difference - This time, I'll be the one to give half that sodding currency to myself, as opposed to the evil con-artists at BitCoin. Then I'll do the easy work of pumping it, recruiting evangelist followers to promote it, getting a bit of media hype. Then while that's running I'll bleed my half out the market, should take about 1 year. That will net me a few million, then I'll just let things take their course. Maybe it will last, maybe it won't, I'll have my cash.

Why can people not see that this is what they did?
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Bodyless: Because noone did that yet and it wouldnt work anyway. You cannot just suddenly convert that many bitcoins into other currency because this would drop the price of the coins and make the rest worthless again. I think there was a link in a previous post about how someone tried to convert coins worth 1000$ and immediatly the price dropped from 20$ into cents per coins.
A lot of people are hoarding coins for the hope of selling them later. This does make the price go up but keeps the flow of coins down. And if only so few coins flow between users noone is going to buy any large amount for the high price, making all your coins basicly worthless again.

It may be used as a scam in theory, but it would not work. So i doubt the creators of bitcoins had such intentions.
I posted that link. Someone did that, it was called the inventors of BitCoin. You can't dump the market, but you can bleed it.
If you don't want to "touch" Bitcoin, but you still want to accept them, you can chose ( or use both ) from these 2 services:
https://walletbit.com
https://bitpay.com

They are like Paypal.

They will accept Bitcoin, and then convert them in common fiat currency ( USD or EUR ) and send them to your bank account.

So you will be able to sell products (accept money) everywhere in the world where there is an internet connection.
Post edited October 25, 2012 by HostFat
Thank you for this information!

Many thanks!
I registered here to ask you to please add bitcoin as a payment option. I don't have a bank account, therefore I can't have a credit card, or use PayPal, or any other old payment services, because they are all based on banking and credit cards. Bitcoin would be the only possible way for me to pay you, and I would buy games worth several hundred dollars, if I only had a possibility to do it.

I am not alone - more than 2/3 of the world population are un-banked (have no access to banking services), but many of those people have access to the internet, and therefore, to bitcoin.

You can also accept payments from anywhere in the world, even from "high-risk" countries (countries from which credit card payments are usually not accepted, because of high fraud rate), because bitcoin transactions are irreversible, and therefore, fraud is impossible.

There is also a popular myth that if you accept bitcoin then you are exposed to bitcoin price fluctuations. That's not true, you can use a payment partner like Coinbase or Bitpay, and receive the exact amount of dollars to your bank account, that means, you can accept bitcoin without ever touching it or worrying about it, but at the same time reaping all bitcoin's benefits mentioned above (the ability to accept payments from literally any country in the world instantly and with zero risk of fraud).

You can read the review of accepting bitcoin for half a year at the Australian online shop for consumer electronics, Millennius (cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/05/amazing-results-retailer-australia-started-accepting-bitcoin-6-months-ago/). The most important part for you would probably be this - "Cryptocurrency has helped negotiate fraud down to zero percent, helping us safely expand our reach to a global audience."

Among tens of thousands of websites which accept bitcoin, probably the most famous and important is wordpress.com . They accept bitcoin for more than a year and a half now. You can visit their blog to read more about why they decided to accept bitcoin (en.blog.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/pay-another-way-bitcoin/). The most important quote is probably this - "PayPal alone blocks access from over 60 countries, and many credit card companies have similar restrictions. Some are blocked for political reasons, some because of higher fraud rates, and some for other financial reasons. Whatever the reason, we don’t think an individual blogger from Haiti, Ethiopia, or Kenya should have diminished access to the blogosphere because of payment issues they can’t control. Our goal is to enable people, not block them."

Please enable me to be your client. Thank you for consideration!
Ah, Bitcoins. A fine work of fraud.
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Gamer456: I registered here to ask you to please add bitcoin as a payment option. I don't have a bank account, therefore I can't have a credit card, or use PayPal, or any other old payment services, because they are all based on banking and credit cards. Bitcoin would be the only possible way for me to pay you, and I would buy games worth several hundred dollars, if I only had a possibility to do it.

I am not alone - more than 2/3 of the world population are un-banked (have no access to banking services), but many of those people have access to the internet, and therefore, to bitcoin.

You can also accept payments from anywhere in the world, even from "high-risk" countries (countries from which credit card payments are usually not accepted, because of high fraud rate), because bitcoin transactions are irreversible, and therefore, fraud is impossible.

There is also a popular myth that if you accept bitcoin then you are exposed to bitcoin price fluctuations. That's not true, you can use a payment partner like Coinbase or Bitpay, and receive the exact amount of dollars to your bank account, that means, you can accept bitcoin without ever touching it or worrying about it, but at the same time reaping all bitcoin's benefits mentioned above (the ability to accept payments from literally any country in the world instantly and with zero risk of fraud).

You can read the review of accepting bitcoin for half a year at the Australian online shop for consumer electronics, Millennius (cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/05/amazing-results-retailer-australia-started-accepting-bitcoin-6-months-ago/). The most important part for you would probably be this - "Cryptocurrency has helped negotiate fraud down to zero percent, helping us safely expand our reach to a global audience."

Among tens of thousands of websites which accept bitcoin, probably the most famous and important is wordpress.com . They accept bitcoin for more than a year and a half now. You can visit their blog to read more about why they decided to accept bitcoin (en.blog.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/pay-another-way-bitcoin/). The most important quote is probably this - "PayPal alone blocks access from over 60 countries, and many credit card companies have similar restrictions. Some are blocked for political reasons, some because of higher fraud rates, and some for other financial reasons. Whatever the reason, we don’t think an individual blogger from Haiti, Ethiopia, or Kenya should have diminished access to the blogosphere because of payment issues they can’t control. Our goal is to enable people, not block them."

Please enable me to be your client. Thank you for consideration!
I believe PaySafe cards allow you to use them without a bank account :)
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Darvond: Ah, Bitcoins. A fine work of fraud.
You are wrong my friend - bitcoin is an open source software (or, more accurately, an open source network protocol, like bittorrent), you, or anyone else, can go to (github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin) and read each and every line of code, and see exactly what it does and how it works, you don't need so trust mine or anyone else's word on it. So how could it be a "fraud"?

This "fraud" as you call it, would enable me to send a payment to gog.com. If you know any other way, how I could send them a payment without having access to banking services, please tell me.
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Darvond: Ah, Bitcoins. A fine work of fraud.
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Gamer456: You are wrong my friend - bitcoin is an open source software (or, more accurately, an open source network protocol, like bittorrent), you, or anyone else, can go to (github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin) and read each and every line of code, and see exactly what it does and how it works, you don't need so trust mine or anyone else's word on it. So how could it be a "fraud"?

This "fraud" as you call it, would enable me to send a payment to gog.com. If you know any other way, how I could send them a payment without having access to banking services, please tell me.
https://www.paysafecard.com/fr-fr/
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JudasIscariot: I believe PaySafe cards allow you to use them without a bank account :)
How would I put money into the card without banking services? I am a programmer and have been receiving my pay in bitcoin for about a year now. Would I be able to do the same in PaySafe currency?

Thank you for answers!
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JudasIscariot: I believe PaySafe cards allow you to use them without a bank account :)
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Gamer456: How would I put money into the card without banking services? I am a programmer and have been receiving my pay in bitcoin for about a year now. Would I be able to do the same in PaySafe currency?

Thank you for answers!
Convert the bitcoin into cash and then buy a PaySafe card? I really don't know as I've never dealt with bitcoin before, sorry :/
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Gamer456: How would I put money into the card without banking services? I am a programmer and have been receiving my pay in bitcoin for about a year now. Would I be able to do the same in PaySafe currency?

Thank you for answers!
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JudasIscariot: Convert the bitcoin into cash and then buy a PaySafe card? I really don't know as I've never dealt with bitcoin before, sorry :/
Sadly, the PaySafe card is available in only select countries, and not in the one I am at now (Belarus). It also does not include such huge countries as China and Russia. That's the main advantage of bitcoin, that it can be used without permission from anyone, if you have an internet connection - you can use it.
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JudasIscariot: Convert the bitcoin into cash and then buy a PaySafe card? I really don't know as I've never dealt with bitcoin before, sorry :/
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Gamer456: Sadly, the PaySafe card is available in only select countries, and not in the one I am at now (Belarus). It also does not include such huge countries as China and Russia. That's the main advantage of bitcoin, that it can be used without permission from anyone, if you have an internet connection - you can use it.
That's fine, but if most stores, like ours, don't accept bitcoin as a form of payment, then it's not all that useful? No offense meant, of course, just speaking out loud here :)

edit: also I didn't know you were located in Belarus, I thought you were in France as it says under your user name :)
Post edited February 24, 2014 by JudasIscariot