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Uncensored versions of games. in progress
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Telika GOG aims at providing games in their original experience (original low tech versions), and liberated from tacked on limitations (drm). I am not sure why they consider censored games satisfying. Is removed or altered content so much better than drm restrictions ? The GOG versions of Fallout, Giants, Gobliiins feel incomplete because of such details. And the edited parts make no sense on a site that also sells unaltered "mature" games (like Carmageddon, Farenheit, Witcher). I suggest that GOG should (if it doesn't already) treat censored versions as temporary "stopgap measures", keep looking for the original versions with the same energy as for unavailable games, and replace them as soon as they can. Or even, make censorship a DRM-level point during their negociations with titles owners.
CoolioWolfus If they have a legal issue with uncensored and geolock, having the uncensored for the non geolock and a waiver option that we sign to accept any legal fallout for gog to add the uncensored in the additional files section meaning the default will stay region specific keeping gog out of any heated caffine drink situations and we get the option to accept liability for the other version.
TwinSeeker Back in the good ol' days, there was no such thing as censorship, games really were games...pure and honest.
vortexbeast Changing/altering/censoring content shows complete disregard for the source, no consideration of historicity and contempt for the gamer. No less.
toendra_nulta Agree 100%
G3RM4N04K Please remove the Geolock!
SgtStecher At least what you can do is to tell us if it's censored. <br /> Because i am from germany, i can understand this issue. As for example we have here an index, a list of prohibited games (due to display of strong violence or whatever). :^( So selling uncensored games could actually cause them some real legal problems. <br /> So guys pls try to understand GOG, if they can't sell uncensored games due to legeal problems.
12345gog If censored it should be clearly stated. Uncensored shuld definitely be an option. Imagine the witcher being censored?!?!?!?
f5uck This is important. Games should be played as the developers intended.
DirkPitt1 It would good compromise if people could choose whether they want download censored or uncensored version.
Treadlight I say this should ideally extend to a strict no content-discrimination policy. Discard and shame the concept of "objectionable content".
jedavis1975 I say at least tell us, if the game is censored. As for Fallout, id had issues when the children were removed as the text that would still appear as they "played". I don't know if GoG can satisfy all the countries they sell to, or if they can sell the version that is "approved" in the country it is sold in.
JohnnyDangerDCD "I request GOG not follow though will this feature. But, since the internet can't seem to find enough "mature" content, perhaps a compromise. If this request is implemented, please also add an option to hide uncensored versions of the game (which some might deem offensive, including me) if the customer so chooses." <br /> <br /> So, because you don't want to see something for whatever reason you don't think anyone should be able to? That's ridiculous. If you can't handle imaginary sex/violence/etc, don't play games that contain them or skip those portions, you know?
endercase This, so much this.
hvkasteren @StampederMX: I haven't checked recently, but the last time I checked the versions of Fallout are the UK versions, which lack children. The removal of children in the first game was done pretty well, not leaving many issues, but in the second game it had several problems. Mostly the images for the kids simply wouldn't load, and you weren't able to interact with them, but they were still there. This led to quests not being able to be completed, and kids stealing items from you when you didn't even know they were there. <br /> <br /> Still great games though :).
Fyxylplyx I wish I could censor all censorship.
StampederMX Since when Fallout is censored? Did you check your game settings right? And what was never sold WOULD still not be sold, so what's your point? Why push your own agenda on others?
PrimalCerebrate Censorship is just the government treating adults like children.
erictheturtle I request GOG not follow though will this feature. But, since the internet can't seem to find enough "mature" content, perhaps a compromise. If this request is implemented, please also add an option to hide uncensored versions of the game (which some might deem offensive, including me) if the customer so chooses.
engels78 Just agree with Topic! Vote+
PatlaborAVX0 You do know in the case of Germany there are laws regarding what can and can't be shown in the media and games so it isnt just a case of oh gog loves teh censorships but also if games are placed on an index which means they cant be sold in full view of people so having them plastered on a website in full view would be contrary to that. While I like my games uncensored you have to remember GOG is a business and they have to respect the laws of the countries they do business in. Because if people didnt whine about it and actually change the laws in thier countries maybe there would be a difference.
Swebb Simple: I don't buy censored games. Never have, never will.
DocIIlate Please, as a old man i say: <br /> <br /> No censored Games. I´m old enough to stand with that games ;)
HockeyWes Here I am to add my voice. I say No to censorship.
C_dog1 One thing I hate. Censorship as an adult. <br /> <br /> Have you ever gutted and skinned a beast? Have you ever cut a steak off a carcass? These things are part of everyday life. Are you telling me I can't show and tell people about the blood and gore involved in their everyday life? Do you think it will make the world a better place if no one can butcher an animal because all the information is censored for blood and gore? <br /> <br /> You censor, you become a dictatorship. You censor, you get people who start revolutions. Not my cup of tea, but facts of life.
terodil Just happened across this by accident. I'm shocked to learn that GOG has started censoring their platform. This, this ONE point (along with the lack of DRM) was what attracted me to GOG in the first place. <br /> <br /> Let me just add my voice to the multiple posts already in here requesting that you study the laws carefully before blindly rushing to apply misconceptions. The rules regarding the Jugendschutz in Germany, as incorporated e.g. in the form of the USK, do not prevent sale of "indexed" (unrated) games to adults. Indeed, adults are not even subject to the USK. Shops selling physical copies simply are not allowed to ADVERTISE those games. If an adult went to the counter and received them upon asking, there'd be absolutely no trouble from a legal point of view. <br /> <br /> Let me be very clear: If this trend continues, I'm afraid that GOG will lose its special place in my heart. I absolutely, positively hate censorship. As an adult, I request to be treated as such and not to be babysat by "guardians of the public virtue". Please do not force me to seek out alternatives.
Serpent1989 I already posted here 2 times but I just came here to proof what wauwi90 has just written (the second post under this entry from 22nd June 2016). <br /> <br /> I came here today because I was seriously considering of buying both Red Faction games. Suddenly they are gone. I know Red Faction 1 has never been released in Germany (don’t know why) but GOG: Red Faction 2 has openly been released in Germany and in 2005 was even on a GameStar disc for free! If you guys would at least publish the lightly censored German version of Red Faction 2 this would had been fine for me because the violence factor in the original English version is really laughable and the German voiceovers are perfect but just keeping me now away from the games at all and even keeping me out of trying Red Faction 1, as I’ve never played it before, made me a little disappointed. <br /> <br /> The funny thing, during your summer sale, which was just going on a few days ago, I could have bought Postal 2 for 0.89 Euro and now suddenly this is gone also just because I’m German. I don’t care about this game anyway (played it years ago and it’s crap in my eyes) but at first giving it out quite for “free” just to close it suddenly afterwards to German users is a very strange move. And no GOG, as I wrote before it is not illegal for Germans to buy uncensored versions or non-checked versions of games and then being shipped to Germany. I’ve done this a lot of times. Sorry to say this guys, but now this becomes really laughable and a reason for me to visit GOG very rarely. Seems like GOG becomes more and more like Steam and I personally dislike Steam a lot. Well, this is another proof of what’s happening if people forget how they started it all themselves and suddenly are not different than the others anymore but more and more add themselves to the mainstream.
christyna64 Don't censor me!
wauwi90 Aaaaaaand GOG just removed 30 games from the store, when visiting via german IP. GJ. <br /> <br /> After Valve's wave of cleaning up their store from 27 games a few weeks ago (which where available for germans for years), they've decided to remove them, even adding region-locks for keys of some games. I thought it can't get any worse than that. <br /> <br /> Turns out, it can always get worse.
Dr.Cheis I would suggest that, along the lines of being DRM-free, if GoG is unable to offer uncensored versions of games, or unable to offer an option to toggle censored version on/off, that they release the games in such a way that if the community were to "happen" to stumble across the necessary files they could easily override the files GoG provides without conflict.
Strykerraven Say no to censorship.
Serpent1989 Dean_Demon, as it already has so far discussed in this thread I can assure you myself that it is not strictly forbidden. For example I can still order games from a foreign country and they are shipped to Germany with absolutely no problem. It all depends on the publisher. GOG for instance is sitting in Poland and in Cyprus. As laws about games are still national laws that have not been weakened by the EU yet, GOG would have no problem to sell it to German customers as well. They are not situated with any office in Germany, this is an website the whole world can gain access to and selling forbidden games to Germany, while not being situated in Germany yourself, is not forbidden at all. You just cannot sell them in your store if it is situated in Germany. Of course, I won't lay my hands completely into the fire for what I've just written as I am not a lawyer but this is what I have experienced here my whole life. Many German users often order uncut games from their neighbouring countries, which are not allowed to be sold here because you can only buy here (inside German borders) what the USK has checked so far. But if you import a game or movie just for yourself from a foreign country there is no problem with it I got some non-checked imported versions right here at my home and never had any trouble with the law at all. :)
Dean_Demon Like it or not but GOG's hands are severely tied when it comes to censored games in certain countries, it's still illegal to sell uncensored games in certain countries (Germany for instance) if that's what their laws dictate and nothing any consumer can do about that no matter how much they demand to have the same game as everyone one else so GOG are not going to be doing something that they are NOT allowed to do.
Serpent1989 In my country (Germany) they sell games, as well as movies, rated 18+ but they still got cut content! I always hated it and that's why I also believe that GOG should always take care of finding an uncut version of a game. Most of us are not 6 year olds that cannot see the difference between violence and reality but our stupid politicians think that even us adults are still kindergarden kids and so they believe that they have to tell US what we can play and what not! I hate them and I hate and NEVER play cut games. I also hate games that are censored just because of a stupid symbol, for example I threw Medal of Honor Allied Assault away as I found out that the original US version had swastikas while the German version has not and even has speech being completely removed from the game (and never been replaced with a different text). I hate that and thats why I support this discussion. Uncut versions only is one of my important mottos when playing a good video game. By the way GOG, I know that you keep me away of Return To Castle Wolfenstein just because it is still forbidden in Germany and I am situated in the same country. I don't like this behaviour, just saying.
MaximeMartyr Censorship is bad. Games must be played as their creators made them. No one has the right to judge what can be kept and what must be removed. If you don't like as it is, then just play another game which suits you better.
TwinSeeker Back in the 90s censorship was a very rare event or issue i guess, i'm a fan of this idea and since GOG Galaxy is our new gaming galaxy for sure, let us all do our best to support this idea and end censorship all together. For a better gaming in a great community and a great future for all of us !
Ross_R Approved, simply approved. Nicely wrote, OP.
fade0ff And now "Dying Light" was added to the list of games that GOG doesn't sell to German customers without telling even them. It's a bloody shame that GOG became even more restrictive than Steam so quickly.
s1drano @Plokite_Wolf. Also, Germany has greatly relaxed its requirements for an 18 rating in recent days. Nowadays, most games get an 18 rating, so long as they don't include references to the 3rd Reich. Wolfenstein is the latest game I'm aware of, that's been censored for Germany. No more black blood, no more ragdoll removal, no more cogwheels or gears or suspension feathers instead of bones and flesh bits, no more robots or cyborgs instead of "real" soldiers. Those days are over.
s1drano @Plokite_Wolf, what @DukeTDK says is correct. In Germany, games that don't make the 18 rating land on the so-called "index". Indexed games may still be sold legally, but they may not receive advertisement. Indexed games also may *not* be put on display. In other words: A shop may sell it, but it is not allowed to officially announce that it is selling it. Basically, that means most shops won't want to sell it (you can't sell a product when people don't know you're selling it). Because of that, games get censored, not because Germany "demands" it, but because selling them would be almost impossible in that case.
Plokite_Wolf @DukeTDK - then explain the insane censorship of Command & Conquer Generals in Germany. Everyone was replaced by cyborgs, factions have been renamed, terrorist units (who run into things and blow themselves up) are replaced by tiny bomb-strapped car-droney things and civilians have been removed because the game "promoted warfare". C&C titles from Tiberian Dawn to Tiberian Sun Firestorm also had cyborgs instead of "real" infantry in the German version, and upon dying, they'd spill dark oil instead of blood. <br /> <br /> German censorship lobbies are sissies and need to have some sort of backlash on home ground.
DukeTDK i miss a edit button: <br /> games withOUT any usk clearance can also be sold
DukeTDK i read a lot about germany bans games with violence. <br /> <br /> in fact: this is wrong! <br /> also the censorship is kinda low. games get censored in germany because of the publishers, because they want a usk age clearance. games without the usk/bpjm is not allowed to be advertised. <br /> it all comes down this part: advertised. <br /> so far for games in terms of violence: its all in the hand of the publishers, games with any usk clearance can also be sold, but as said, advertising is not allowed (like games with the usk 18 logo) <br /> <br /> about germany historical part and the 3rd reich logos. <br /> you are allowed to actually own and play those games with the hakenkreuz/swastika be present. <br /> BUT! you are not allowed to show those to anyone else, because this is again §86 StGB. in short: you aren't allowed to spread those symbols, not even show them to your family. this also hits publishers when they sell games. of course this excludes historical relevant books, documentary, any random movie and so on. <br /> but importing them from foreign countrys isn't a issue. hell, you could even import flags and stuff, but never show them to anyone else. <br />
kikix12 GOG is not based in Germany. German laws have 0 impact on how GOG works. They can sell games banned in Germany to Germans. It's the Germans that are breaking their countries law when they are buying the games that are banned in them. <br /> <br /> Only distributors that are located within the territory of a country need to abide by that countries laws. That means that digital distribution, even if worldwide, needs to abide by laws of only a single country. It would be different if they were selling boxed games (they could not legally send the game to a country that bans it, or rather...the game would not be able to legally pass the border), but there is no import or export over the internet. <br /> <br /> It's just that many of the uncensored versions are lost in history for one reason or another. Some developers/publishers no longer exist, with the original versions being...lost pretty much permanently. That's the only real reason for censored versions on GOG, I believe.
Wolve-San I think, that the problem here is not gog.com, but the state laws, which handle the censoring. Most of the decisions for making a cut were made many years before and didn't change since then. Let's review the BPjS in Germany. The progress of censoring is like that: A person over 18 years can go to the office, that manages the censoring. Can take a copy of any game, that is offered there and test this game. After testing they write down the review of the game, where they state, why this game should or shouldn't be censored. A team of scientists and politics will read the review and decide over the censoring. Since the testers are not getting paid, anyone can participate in this progress. You just have to drive to Berlin and visit their office. Thanks to this screwed up progress most of the games get different kind of reviewing. <br /> <br /> Now comes the bad part. Since many developers and publishers are afraid for getting their software banned from the german market, they start to make extra editions, that are cut and offer them on the market instead of the uncut versions. So thanks to the screwed up reviews and the bad censoring through some random people, the developers see themself in the need to make cut versions for the german market. <br /> <br /> Now back to the important part. <a href="http://GOG.com" class="light_un" target="_blank">GOG.com</a> can't offer this censored games in a uncut version, because the law of germany (or any other country, where the game is censored) forbids the offering of this software to the countries customers. So if <a href="http://gog.com" class="light_un" target="_blank">gog.com</a> offers the stuff uncut and breaks the laws, they can get pretty big problems. <br /> <br /> Instead of ignoring the laws, <a href="http://gog.com" class="light_un" target="_blank">gog.com</a> offers the cut versions. <br /> <br /> If you don't like this, than offer your countrys political representives a solution, that they like, so they change the progress of censoring. <a href="http://Gog.com" class="light_un" target="_blank"><br /> Gog.com</a> has two options: Offering a censored version or not offering the games at all.
tom_steinbach I totally agree. If GOG sells cut versions (e.g. to Germans) GOG needs to explicitly state this. Otherwise their reputation will suffer. <br /> <br /> I did not buy Fallout 1 and 2 on STEAM because I would have received cut versions. I bought them on GOG and I expect to receive uncut versions as there was no message stating that the versions are cut. It is as simple as that.
Wraith1964 Very saddened that this happens on GOG. Preserving great games for generations to come is a primary selling point of GOG. If the games are altered in content for any reason it should be pointed out in the game description. Regional concerns, uncensored versions, etc could be dealt with with patches or multiple versions, age questions, etc. Bottomline the whole point of bringing these games back to life is to bringing them back whole... changes should only be made to keep them playable on new OS'.
fade0ff I never realized this before, but this Xmas sale clearly shows that some games are not even sold in certain countries. E.g. here in Germany, neither Quake 2/3 nor one of the Wolfenstein games is available even though I just got a advertisement mail for them. <br /> I somewhat understand that these games are indexed or even forbidden here but I still miss the early years of GOG where you were not discriminated against because you came from a certain country. <br /> It all became worse since the introduction of region detection, forced region-bases prices and crap like this. <br /> I fear sooner or later GOG will go down the drain like all other things in the internet that were once free and cool.
ParaKuribo Not taking sides in this but you guys do know that Steam is from an American company while GOG is from a European company. There is a HUGE difference in what they CAN and CANNOT release in order to stay in business(Left 4 Dead, Ninja Gaiden remakes, Until Dawn and Saints Row are perfect examples). And no, Indigo Prophecy somehow gets a pass. <br /> <br /> Besides, you guys want nudity, we could end up getting hentai that can be patch, which is exactly why I choose GOG over Steam. You remove sex scenes from a hentai game and release it with a Mature rating, IT IS STILL A HENTAI GAME!!!
odisos GOG should give an example and don't follow steams stupid path of releasing a cut game and posting a uncut link in the game forum. That is silly and encourages publishers to censor their games without providing a uncut version (happens to more and more VNs). GOG should publish uncensored games with nudity/sex/gore or what ever seams inappropriate to some conservative people. Just tag it with that content and, if necessary, implement age verification. <br /> <br /> Also HuniPop uncut version has the in game option to turn nudity on/off so the patched version is still not the same es the uncut version.
tibs210 Yes, give us the uncensored versions of titles. Even if we have to verify our age and add the uncensored patch ourselves via Galaxy or from the site.
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