Logging in and downloading a game is a digital right that is being managed, a right that was acquired at the point of sale.

By that strict definition of DRM then only some Steam games have it and others don't. If you can execute the game outside the Steam client, it doesn't have DRM. The actual download client is irrelevant since the flows are identical. It only at execution time that it matters. Since you could execute some games w/o the Steam client, those are DRM free. That you might choose to also execute them through a flow that checks your user id is irrelevant to the game having or not having DRM itself. Because the game itself is not wrapped in a DRM. Usually at this point, I make the move to the white board where definitions and consequences are written out so that the discussion doesn't get sidetracked by redefining things mid-process. But I feel I've put out the subtleties I'm trying to express so I'll let this reply stand as a finale.

In fact, how the general person uses a word is more important than what you or I think the definition is or what you look up a definition to be (I found this hard to accept for many years). Unfortunately (or fortunately) usage defines language, not a dictionary or a web site. No worries though, because N years ago, I was right were you are now. So while you might not get away with a Minotaur definition, the definition that my mother would give to DRM is more accurate than any technical definition that I or you might use. Such is life. (You have no idea how many years I wasted trying to fight the popular use of the word "hacker" (I was wrong)). [by the way 'letter of the law' is euphemism in the U.S. that generally means "in the strictest sense" it doesn't have anything to do with the law (as in judges and lawyers)]

In any case, GOG manages your digital rights via the license which restricts you from handing out copies. If you do so, you might as well have downloaded the game from a torrent. Steam manages your digital rights via the license which allows you to have access to the games.

These licenses are not DRM technologies, but they are within the entire system of managing your digital rights for each service.

(Besides the initial login which does seem to satisfy the requirements to be a DRM technology in both cases) The DRM technology of Steam is the a license check for most games when you run them (assuming you aren't in offline mode).

Beware relying on what is "well-established", because that always involves dependencies on assumptions that may or may not apply in various contexts. :)

Also, I don't think I'm saying what you generally seem to think I'm saying, but I could be wrong.

again ymmv (ie, all this is just me 'talking' and I could be horribly wrong (which wouldn't necessarily surprise me)).

Steam is a DRM, no question about it. One I can live with? Most definitely, I've brought many games on the service, and hope to buy many, many more.

Steam is a fairly easy DRM to crack, and if ever steam dies, I have cracks at my disposal so I can easily play without worry. Yet, the fact is, steam is an epic success and will most likely remain for years and years to come. By then, I could care less about the majority of games I have, because I have wrung all the enjoyment out of them. Heck, I might not even be a gamer any more by then.

I have a copy of The Longest Journey sitting on my hard drive right now. I purchased it from GOG. This copy contains no DRM, nor will it ever. Before I purchased the game I was not aloud access to their servers to download it. This is access control, but it is not DRM. If you try and log into my GOG account right now, you will probably fail in that act because access control is stopping you. You will also not be able to obtain my emails from my email account. This is not because my emails are protected by DRM, but because their is an access control mechanism stopping you. Althought DRM can employ access control mechanisms, access control mechanisms in and of themselves are not always DRM. Car analogy!... Wheels are used on cars. Wheels are also used on trucks. Just because a vehicle has wheels does not make it a truck. Access control mechanisms are used in DRM programs. Access control mechanisms are used with email server programs. Just because a program has access control mechanisms, it does not make it DRM.

You are getting confused between the access control mechanism used to limit access to the game installers (not DRM), and the access control mechanism employed as part of a DRM system in some games.

-Komoto

Best analogy I've seen in a while.

I'm actually glad there's some debate going on in here, I'm enjoying the points people are making.

@PhoenixWrite: This guy above understands! He knows that Steam is a DRM Platform, but can personally tolerate it.

I've bought some games on Steam, but I prefer to get them elsewhere without DRM if I can. Obviously stuff like Left4Dead I have to get through Steam, but I can't imagine a world without it, so I tolerate the DRM :P

I use Steam and tolerate it just fine as well. I simply illustrated how someone could view GOG as employing DRM. As Gundato loves to bring up, it's a term with a million different definitions based on who is talking about it at the time. Obviously there is no DRM regardless of definition in the executables we download, and that's why the site is so popular. I like your access control mechanism vs. DRM argument, because it is aligned with the way I view DRM, but we aren't the only people in the world and many have a different perception.

Nice to see someone sharing the same feelings. I too seek DRM free games where I can (like here!) but some great games are exclusive to steam, and it's been a long time since I decided the advantages of steam for a person like myself outweigh the disadvantages. I've spent 100's of hours on games brought through steam, personally the enjoyment factor is worth it.

Same with GoG, these games aren't free, at the end of the day it's money out of my pocket (so to speak) and I'm willing to pay for them since I get great enjoyment out of them.

No, you can sell copies. Even if you sell it the game is still tied to your account, you still have it, hence you haven't actually sold the game, you sold a copy.

You cannot unbind the game from your account to sell it.

My answer: GoG = no DRM. Steam = DRM, albeit usually much nicer than any other form.

Sounds like we're on the level.

BTW: Whose the character in your avatar picture?

I thought I would add a couple pennies to the mix:

Yes, I agree that Steam is a form of DRM. I can also see how some people don't like it, since the client must be running at all times to play the games. But you cannot fault Steam for things beyond their control, like 3rd party DRM for instance. It is not Steam's choice to have this extra DRM on some games, it is the publisher's requirement, and therefore should not be viewed with judgment towards Steam as a whole.

The fact is that I use Steam as my chat client to connect with my friends, and the in-game interface allows my to chat and even pull up faqs or search for random things without even minimizing the game. It keeps all my games up to date automatically. And last but not least, the sales are FREAKING AWESOME!

I personally don't care that I cannot resell my Civ 4 complete when I spent $10 on it all, and the same goes for each and every game on my Steam account (I never buy at full price). Hell, a lot of games have other DRM crap that don't let you resell them anyway already built in.

I can also play games on any number of computers by simply using Steam in offline mode, so it isn't that bad anyway.

@OP
Clearly the guy you were talking to had no idea what 'DRM' actually means.
Steam is a DRM platform, but it's one of the nicer ones (Hell I love steam nearly as much as GoG).
GoG doesn't use DRM as you can install the games as many times as you like without codes, online authorisation, or any of the other nasty DRM mechanisms out there.
Hell, once you have the games downloaded, you technically would never need an internet connection again to play them (provided people can manage their backups).

I think one of the scariest aspects of the Steam platform is how easily people forget that it is DRM and are willing to fight for their right to lose their rights. It's good marketing and good capitalizing on people's "panic" psychology.
Come out with a really harsh form of DRM, people panic, start fighting. Push a much lesser form of DRM, people are happier and that's alright. I've seen it happening with the majority of consumers for the past 15 years. We're at a point where installing one form of DRM is alright because it ISN'T AS BAD as the others.
The sad fact of it is that all forms of DRMs rob us of some pretty basic consumer rights. I know that IP rights management is a fairly gray area when it comes to digital content but still but there should be better ways...
Ask yourselves this, Why do we even need DRMs?
If you've answered piracy, I suggest reading the Wolfire blog [they have an interesting entry about just that]. And don't qoute statistics, there hasn't been proper market research done towards this yet, all we have to are fairy tale numbers from the people who push DRMs on us...

I don't mind Steam so much as a mild form of DRM. GOG is infinitely superior, however. I mostly use Steam for the Valve-only games such as Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead. Game companies have been using copy protection in games for decades. There's nothing new about it, other than the level of intrusiveness that it can now take. There's even an interesting history regarding the various groups such as "The Humble Guys", and so forth who have fought it over the years.

Off-topic - CKVEGA. I've seen that girl riding the spider on The IT Crowd. Do you happen to know what it's originally from?