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General discussionDEFCON's DRM is still active, support doesn't give a crap(555 posts)(555 posts)
(555 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform: ... making the game DRM-free in single player should be pretty trivial for someone with source code access.
Not necessarily. I don't know about this specific case, but removing a significant element from a completed game, while still leaving the game fully functional, might well be a non-trivial task. Remember that bugs alone can sometimes take months to fix without further breaking the game. On top of that, it would probably be a good idea to put the result through significant testing--a significant change can cause issues in surprising ways and places, I believe.

It's not impossible that you're right, that the developers are dragging their heels, but it also seems quite possible that you're underestimating just how big a job the removal of the DRM system might be.
Posted June 30, 2015
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Thaumaturge: Not necessarily. I don't know about this specific case, but removing a significant element from a completed game, while still leaving the game fully functional, might well be a non-trivial task. Remember that bugs alone can sometimes take months to fix without further breaking the game. On top of that, it would probably be a good idea to put the result through significant testing--a significant change can cause issues in surprising ways and places, I believe.

It's not impossible that you're right, that the developers are dragging their heels, but it also seems quite possible that you're underestimating just how big a job the removal of the DRM system might be.
Well given the way the DRM functions in this case, all they'd really need to do is disable the bit that "deactivates" the game.

I wasn't generalising, I was talking very specifically about this game and for this game it should be really easy to render the DRM non-functional.
Posted June 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform: Pretty damn annoyed here. Sent a fairly detailed email to support about DEFCON's DRM issue, explaining the problems and offering a couple of ways they could solve it.

Got a copy paste reply back today

Please go to your account:
https://www.gog.com/account
click on DEFCON, click MORE > SERIAL KEYS
now launch the game, go to Options > Authentication and enter the key from your account.
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SirPrimalform: So, use the key you should only have to use to play multi-player to be able to play single-player. In other words "put up with the DRM".

For people who aren't aware of the error, GOG 'defeated' DEFCON's DRM by making it install pre-activated. The problem is that it still phones home and that the developer has cancelled the key that GOG used to pre-activate it. So you install the game and it immediately tells you that your key has been revoked. Your options from that point are either

1. Play the game in demo mode
2. Activate the game using the multi-player key in your GOG account

Not only is GOG selling a game with completely active DRM, they're apparently not at all bothered about fixing it as their advice is just to put up with online activation.

I've obviously asked for a refund, as the game was sold as DRM-free. I'm sure they'll give me a refund to hopefully shut me up, but really they owe everyone who bought it a refund because it was missold as DRM-free.

Sorry if the post is a little incoherent, I'm feeling angry about this at the moment and I'm also kind of ill.

EDIT: I don't think this is indicative of a policy shift, but possibly support staff who aren't paid enough.
thanks, not interested in defcon, but i'll make a point to avoid it.
Posted June 30, 2015
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Ciris: Guys, we've been in contact with the developer for a while now in order to get a build fully free of DRM (not even with a universal CD-Key).

We're hoping to get that ASAP, but the solution in the meantime is to play the game offline if you DO want to play it while it has DRM (so as not to NOT be able to access it entirely).

The build with no DRM is on the way - and I'll inform you in this thread when it does arrive for those that would like to hold off on their purchase until that happens.
That's great! I'm really glad to see GOG fixing its mistake - that's part of why I trust you people and shop here. But it should never have happened in the first place.

Trust is really the key problem here. If I wanted 'DRM-free with workarounds' I would shop on Steam, HB, take to the high seas, etc. I buy here because I trust that GOG will not have games that phone home or otherwise have DRM. That trust is seriously shaken when it turns out there are games that do have DRM and you've been lying to me by claiming the game is DRM-free. It's not nearly as bad as some activation schemes and doesn't impact single-player from what has been said, so I suppose that's why this version of phoning-home was allowed. I can understand that, but I disagree with it.

That you're fixing this game is great and absolutely the right first step, but that it phoned home in the first place and that fact was not publicized is a problem. The need to rely on community projects and individual reports to understand what my games are doing is part of what put me off other game stores, and if I need to start doing that for GOG games also that's one less feature GOG has over other game stores.
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SirPrimalform: Pretty damn annoyed here. Sent a fairly detailed email to support about DEFCON's DRM issue, explaining the problems and offering a couple of ways they could solve it.

Got a copy paste reply back today

So, use the key you should only have to use to play multi-player to be able to play single-player. In other words "put up with the DRM".

For people who aren't aware of the error, GOG 'defeated' DEFCON's DRM by making it install pre-activated. The problem is that it still phones home and that the developer has cancelled the key that GOG used to pre-activate it. So you install the game and it immediately tells you that your key has been revoked. Your options from that point are either

1. Play the game in demo mode
2. Activate the game using the multi-player key in your GOG account

Not only is GOG selling a game with completely active DRM, they're apparently not at all bothered about fixing it as their advice is just to put up with online activation.

I've obviously asked for a refund, as the game was sold as DRM-free. I'm sure they'll give me a refund to hopefully shut me up, but really they owe everyone who bought it a refund because it was missold as DRM-free.

Sorry if the post is a little incoherent, I'm feeling angry about this at the moment and I'm also kind of ill.

EDIT: I don't think this is indicative of a policy shift, but possibly support staff who aren't paid enough.
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dick1982: thanks, not interested in defcon, but i'll make a point to avoid it.
It's a fun game and GOG is getting an official DRM-free build shortly, so I wouldn't go that far. It's irritating and disappointing that this happens, but GOG is generally good about fixing missteps like this.
Post edited June 30, 2015 by Gilozard
Posted June 30, 2015
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Thaumaturge: Not necessarily. I don't know about this specific case, but removing a significant element from a completed game, while still leaving the game fully functional, might well be a non-trivial task. Remember that bugs alone can sometimes take months to fix without further breaking the game. On top of that, it would probably be a good idea to put the result through significant testing--a significant change can cause issues in surprising ways and places, I believe.

It's not impossible that you're right, that the developers are dragging their heels, but it also seems quite possible that you're underestimating just how big a job the removal of the DRM system might be.
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SirPrimalform: Well given the way the DRM functions in this case, all they'd really need to do is disable the bit that "deactivates" the game.

I wasn't generalising, I was talking very specifically about this game and for this game it should be really easy to render the DRM non-functional.
Perhaps, but without seeing the code itself, its difficult to say just how simple it is to "disable the bit that deactivates the game". Perhaps all that's called for is commenting-out a single line. Perhaps other elements rely on that bit, or it serves multiple purposes and disabling it calls for reimplementing those pieces of functionality in new modules. Perhaps there's some other bit of code that assumes that the DRM-code is running, and becomes "confused" if it isn't. Perhaps there's some entirely different problem.

In addition, how difficult this is may depend on just how far they're going: Ciris' post just above says that they're creating a build "fully free of DRM", I believe, which may involve actually removing the components that run the DRM, and which might be a significant task.
Posted June 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform: EDIT: If you've been in contact with the developer for some time and they're still not holding up their end of the bargain, I hope your contract with them has some kind of clause that actually requires them to provide a DRM-free build.
Apart from sheer ignorance/incompetence, my best guess is that it simply slipped under their radar with Prison Architect having taken up so much of their attention.
Posted June 30, 2015
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Gilozard: . It's not nearly as bad as some activation schemes and doesn't impact single-player from what has been said, so I suppose that's why this version of phoning-home was allowed. I can understand that, but I disagree with it.
If you're talking about DEFCON, the DRM absolutely affects single player - if you allow it to phone home. Upon starting up, the game immediately tries to phone home and if it succeeds then the game turns itself into a demo. The fact that GOG is selling a game that contains code that actively locks you out of the game is the reason this is such a big deal. GOG really does need to explain itself and offer refunds here.
Posted June 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform:
theres also a bunch of games with the steam_api.dll in their folders - wont run without it either and they all try to connect to steam.
only found out due to zone alarm alerting me.
while blocking the game from communicating with steam doesnt seem to hinder running the game, it does make me wonder...
Posted June 30, 2015
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Sachys: theres also a bunch of games with the steam_api.dll in their folders - wont run without it either and they all try to connect to steam.
only found out due to zone alarm alerting me.
while blocking the game from communicating with steam doesnt seem to hinder running the game, it does make me wonder...
That's interesting. Not quite the same if it doesn't try to stop you playing, but still a bit " :S " if it's trying to connect to Steam. Does it ever manage?
Posted June 30, 2015
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Sachys: theres also a bunch of games with the steam_api.dll in their folders - wont run without it either and they all try to connect to steam.
only found out due to zone alarm alerting me.
while blocking the game from communicating with steam doesnt seem to hinder running the game, it does make me wonder...
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SirPrimalform: That's interesting. Not quite the same if it doesn't try to stop you playing, but still a bit " :S " if it's trying to connect to Steam. Does it ever manage?
if i didnt have zone alarm it would.

for ages I had "unreal developers kit" logging hours of play on steam - couldnt figure it out.
eventually turned out it was the drm free version (from humble) of tower of guns. contatced the dev and he was all apologies and (far as I know) removed it.

if that can happen... well, like I said I do wonder what else.

Edit: though as I also said, deleting that dll means the game wont work 90% of cases.
Post edited June 30, 2015 by Sachys
Posted June 30, 2015
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Ciris: Guys, we've been in contact with the developer for a while now in order to get a build fully free of DRM (not even with a universal CD-Key).

We're hoping to get that ASAP, but the solution in the meantime is to play the game offline if you DO want to play it while it has DRM (so as not to NOT be able to access it entirely).

The build with no DRM is on the way - and I'll inform you in this thread when it does arrive for those that would like to hold off on their purchase until that happens.
That's nice, but too late, if you ask me and what I find intriguing is the fact that at firstyou say "happend again" and only come up with a nice story when too many people ask questions and show their discontent. The picture that comes to my mind is this ... http://abload.de/img/i-dont-believe-you-87isdu.jpeg

And will this solution arrive before or after this DRM removal? http://www.gog.com/forum/general/fear_installed_securom_all_over_my_computer_does_anyone_know_how_to_get_rid_of_it
Post edited June 30, 2015 by john_hatcher
Posted June 30, 2015
Next week GOG decides that selling DRM-free is just to darn hard these days and replaces all games with Steam keys.


EDIT: That would put the haters in their place :)
Post edited June 30, 2015 by 011284mm
Posted June 30, 2015
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011284mm: Next week GOG decides that selling DRM-free is just to darn hard these days and replaces all games with Steam keys.


EDIT: That would put the haters in their place :)
Ah, the classic humble bundle maneuver.
Posted July 01, 2015
high rated
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Ciris: Guys, we've been in contact with the developer for a while now in order to get a build fully free of DRM (not even with a universal CD-Key).

We're hoping to get that ASAP, but the solution in the meantime is to play the game offline if you DO want to play it while it has DRM (so as not to NOT be able to access it entirely).

The build with no DRM is on the way - and I'll inform you in this thread when it does arrive for those that would like to hold off on their purchase until that happens.
So what you are basically saying here, quite clearly, so everyone can understand it, is that all this time you have been fully aware that one of the games you advertised and sold as DRM free was actually nothing of the sort. Furthermore, you have not only neglected to inform your paying customers about this, but actually pretended that it wasn't the case. Additionally, your support has been telling people who have been burned by this DRM to "put up with it".

Is this how much your "principles" are worth to you, GOG?

I would very much like an official response to this, but seeing how poor you usually are at owning up to your "mistakes", I doubt very much I'll get one. The shitstorm isn't big enough for you to care yet.
Posted July 01, 2015
*wheels out giant fans and curried gogbear

Lets make it grow! O____o
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionDEFCON's DRM is still active, support doesn't give a crap(555 posts)(555 posts)
(555 posts)