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Out of the four spellbooks, Divinity casters (Lord, Valkyrie, Priest), get the least amount of attack spells, and most of these are thrown range only. Therefore, they are the class least likely to benefit from PowerCast.

I know that PC affects buff duration, but the important ones usually last long enough, and Heal All/Rest All are very powerful without it.

Alchemy/Psionics/Wizardry casters would benefit more from PC, than a Divinity caster would.

This gives a clear path for Divinity casters: Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses (same as a non-caster). They would unlock PowerStrike, Reflextion, SnakeSpeed, and Eagle Eye. Also, Divinity casters tend to have much more HPs than their peers, which makes Vitality less important.

Falling Stars is weaker than Earthquake, but it also costs less SPs. It's similar to how Lightning does less overall damage than Nuclear Blast, but is significantly cheaper in SPs than its comparison. Also, Lightning can be cast safely at PL 7 (This is assuming that the enemy is neatly lined up, and/or is in thrown range).
Post edited February 28, 2024 by RChu1982
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RChu1982: Alchemy/Psionics/Wizardry casters would benefit more from PC, than a Divinity caster would.

This gives a clear path for Divinity casters: Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses (same as a non-caster). They would unlock PowerStrike, Reflextion, SnakeSpeed, and Eagle Eye. Also, Divinity casters tend to have much more HPs than their peers, which makes Vitality less important.
Actually, that doesn't follow. Divinity casters may not benefit from Power Cast as much, but they still benefit enough for i t to be a reasonable choice, especially in an MDP (or if the Divinity caster happens to be a Bishop).

Worth noting that every Divinity class except Bishop has a minimum Vitality requirement. (That's actually the main reason why priest/bishop muticlasses don't work out as well statwise as other specialist/bishop mutlclasses.)


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RChu1982: Falling Stars is weaker than Earthquake, but it also costs less SPs. It's similar to how Lightning does less overall damage than Nuclear Blast, but is significantly cheaper in SPs than its comparison. Also, Lightning can be cast safely at PL 7 (This is assuming that the enemy is neatly lined up, and/or is in thrown range).
On the other hand, PL6 Nuclear Blast is more powerful than PL7 Lightning, even in terms of resistance penetration. (Higher level + Higher SP cost together outweigh the higher PL of Lightning.)
Post edited February 28, 2024 by dtgreene
In my last MDP, where I had one "flavor" of magic each, coming from Instruments, Gadgets, Divinity, Alchemy, Psionics, and Wizardry, the path was to get the last 4 Powercast.

However, in this more balanced party, the Valkyrie and Ranger are already behind the 8-ball, suffering a -4 caster penalty.

Do I really want the opportunity cost of PowerCast? This comes at the cost of combat abilities, making the character do less damage, have a lower chance to hit, get less swings and attacks, have a lower initiative, etc.

Seriously, I hate multi-classing in this game. It seems like you have to give up a lot of what you did in your old class, to get a new class, changing equipment sometimes, skills locked, worrying about meeting minimum profession requirements, etc.

As an example, if in Bayjin, with a group of Rynjin which you outlevel, out in the open, you can layer magic. Nuclear Blast is unnecessary if they are in thrown range, where Lightning would be much more cost-effective (PL7).
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RChu1982: Seriously, I hate multi-classing in this game. It seems like you have to give up a lot of what you did in your old class, to get a new class, changing equipment sometimes, skills locked, worrying about meeting minimum profession requirements, etc.
I think they did go too far when they changed multi-classing in this game.

The game I'm replaying right now, Saviors of Sapphire Wings, has a subclass system that feels better balanced, to the point where it gives you an advantage (and no disadvantage!), while not letting everyone do everything. Basically, XP is tracked separately per class, and your subclass gets half the XP of your main class. (The game also has different balance properties; offensive spells go Alchemist > Healer > Wizard, if we ignore weaknesses and Omega Impact, spells are the fastest way to take down bosses, and physical attacks have the most easily acquirable area attacks.)

Or there's Stranger of Sword City (Revisited), which has a more traditional class change system (lose half your levels when changing class), but limits the number of abilities you can borrow from previous classes at any one time.

I mentioned how, if I were making Wizardry 9, I'd revise the class change system. Here are some things I'd change:
* You keep all your equipment options of the old class, and get the equipment options of the new class.
* Old class skills remain open. However, there's a skill cap; it's 5 times the number of levels you have in the class plus 10 if the skill is a class skill for at least one of your classes. (The skill cap is there to prevent things like Stealth dips from potentially breaking the game; then again, I'd also change how Stealth works, or at the very least make it something you can turn off.) Skills still can't be increased over 100 without bonuses.
* The primary skill bonus isn't 25%; it's 2% per class level. (Still ignores the skill cap.)
* Class special abilities are kept. However, some would be changed to keep dips from being too powerful. (For example, I'm thinking Berserk would be 5% per Fighter level, so you need to keep investing in the Fighter class to make it powerful. I'm also thinking I'd give the Lizardman race the equivalent of 4 fighter levels for this purpose, to give that race something special to make up for its weaknesses.)
* You can't start as a Hybrid or Bishop, and can't change into those classes until level 5. However, hybrids would lose their 4 level penalty (so, for example, a Cleric/Valkyrie would get full caster level, but wouldn't be as good at fighting as one who took 4 levels in Fighter, and a Bishop would need to choose a primary spellbook for the first 4 levels). (I might allow a character to become an apprentice at this point, seeing as how many players wouldn't know the stat requirements in advance.)
* Not related to class change, but speaking of magic, I'd make resistance, particularly against direct damage spells, less dependent on relative level; furthermore, enemy resistance would be lower and player resistance wouldn't be as easy to get (maybe no Element/Soul Shield, or at least make the much weaker). This would make magic a good choice when you'd otherwise be outmatched, rather than the Wizardry 8 balance where offensive spells are useless in those situations and you end up using physical attacks.
* Also, expert skill acquisition would de different. At level 11, and every 10 levels after that, you get to choose one expert skill, regardless of class. (Note that there'd need to be some rebalancing of stats for this to work, particularly Intelligence.)

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RChu1982: As an example, if in Bayjin, with a group of Rynjin which you outlevel, out in the open, you can layer magic. Nuclear Blast is unnecessary if they are in thrown range, where Lightning would be much more cost-effective (PL7).
If you're using specialist casters, however, the cost of Nuclear Blast is offset by the following:
* Your Nuclear Blast caster will have more fire spells than your Lightning caster (who will only have at most 2). This means more SP for the NB caster.
* Your NB caster will also, in typical play, have more Fire Magic skill, thanks to using fire spells the whole game (Energy Blast is good when you get it, since it's the least resisted realm early on, while Fireball is just so useful when you're using offensive magic), whereas the Lightning caster will not have been using fire magic much because the only other spell, Light, isn't that useful except as a practice spell.

Note that this means that NB might very well be castable safely at a higher power level than Lightning. (Even Falling Stars might be usable at a higher casting level, if you've been casting Armorplate regularly.)

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RChu1982: In my last MDP, where I had one "flavor" of magic each, coming from Instruments, Gadgets, Divinity, Alchemy, Psionics, and Wizardry, the path was to get the last 4 Powercast.
Did you also have Artifacts and Throwing, the other flavors of magic, well covered? (Well, there's also potion-like items, which don't use a skill, and Dispel Undead, which is a non-learnable spell that's usable by Priest/Bishop special ability.)
Post edited February 29, 2024 by dtgreene
I did this last time with my last party, and documented it: A MDP relies on layered/stacked magic. For example: While in Bayjin, a superior level party will face many crabs and Rynjin in thrown range. What I did with my last party was:
Priest: Lightning
Alchemist: Fire Bomb
Psionic: Psionic Fire
Mage: Fireball

This defeated all enemies in 1 round. There is no need to overkill enemies, casting Nuclear Blast to waste magic. NB is for more serious battles, where you actually feel threatened.

This is why I'm training magic in the Monastery, so that every caster is on an even playing field. Even the Valkyrie with only Light/Lightning in her Fire realm will be decent when she walks out of the Monastery.

This is why I feel that magic is paramount to train early:

1. They will learn spells on time.

2. They will be able to cast at the highest power level possible.

3. They will get the maximum mana early, having maxed (or nearly maxed) all realm and spellbook skills.

Whereas, having decent melee and ranged skills (50 to 75), will still be ok, as you get decent chance to hit, and a decent amount of swings and attacks.

I don't consider Artifacts, and Throwing and Sling, as a magic school, as you have to visit vendors constantly to recharge your items, and restock on throwing items (if they even have it). Seriously, one of the biggest flaws of W8 is having to save before you visit a vendor, then constantly reload if they don't have the item(s) you want.
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RChu1982: NB is for more serious battles, where you actually feel threatened.
Or for when the enemies are dispersed enough that you can't target enough of them with a single Fireball. (See something like the Rapar Army, or if you're fighting two enemy parties at once that are on opposite sides of the party.)
What you want is balance, so that you're never caught "with your pants down", so to speak.

You can get by quite nicely, with decent melee and ranged combat capabilities, for a long time (these skills don't suffer from magic resistance penalties).

With magic, you want to make sure that your realm and spellbook skills are good early. This involves a lot of early sacrifices, which is what I'm currently doing, hanging out in the Monastery until level 21. See: Creed (My Own Prison). All joking aside, I will be dominant upon leaving the Monastery.