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Oh hmm, you're sounding pretty positive on bards in that post. Your list of builds features a level 4 bard and a level 6 bard https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1 which to me meant.... you weren't a fan of "a real bard".

Dirge only unlocks at level 8. So there is no ineffect dirge bard build anywhere that I currently know of.

Is this just because thundercall19/1anything builds itself so easily? I've seen you frequently comment in that thread that a thundercaller is great, and wants to be pure or at least 19 levels for full effect. I guess maybe that just means, the build is too easy for you to bother writing it up? But it's still very good?

You also don't have an actual build for an erastil cleric that I can see in your list of builds, but at least in your unfair guide you spell the build out. I guess your build guide, isn't for totally simple builds like that build themselves like, just pick communal animal cleric, or just pick thundercaller, I guess you feel like no one can mess though options up too badly.
Post edited March 06, 2020 by left1000
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left1000: Oh hmm, you're sounding pretty positive on bards in that post. Your list of builds features a level 4 bard and a level 6 bard https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1 which to me meant.... you weren't a fan of "a real bard".

Dirge only unlocks at level 8. So there is no ineffect dirge bard build anywhere that I currently know of.

Is this just because thundercall19/1anything builds itself so easily? I've seen you frequently comment in that thread that a thundercaller is great, and wants to be pure or at least 19 levels for full effect. I guess maybe that just means, the build is too easy for you to bother writing it up? But it's still very good?

You also don't have an actual build for an erastil cleric that I can see in your list of builds, but at least in your unfair guide you spell the build out. I guess your build guide, isn't for totally simple builds like that build themselves like, just pick communal animal cleric, or just pick thundercaller, or just pick sylvan sorcerer, I guess you feel like no one can mess though options up too badly.
I am a great fan of taking val bard of some stripe for the ride. This guide has 2 versions of what one can do on her with different parties. Not so much as a MC. And am even less of a fan for any kinda of a caster bard. I still think those are shite.

Edit. As to the builds... This one focuses more on party composition and companion/merc synergy. The other one is mainly one-fit-all thing. It's just too much effort to make every build modular with a lot of "if so and so, then X" and would inevitably just result in confusion. And there is the fact I don't maintain the builds up to date anymore. Mostly cause owlcats community management is incompetent and doing something for the game with it's current state of affairs is too much like work and last I checked I'm not being paid. Unfair guide is closer to the date, so that's what's gonna have builds that are closer to what I'm using in my games.
Post edited March 06, 2020 by InEffect
Ahh, yes, I see the valerie in the other thread had only 6 bard, but in this thread she has 8 bard or 11 bard for dirge

Why do some of your builds recommend 11 int? You can't gain additional skillpoints from equipped magical items of +3 int can you?
Post edited March 06, 2020 by left1000
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left1000: Why do some of your builds recommend 11 int? You can't gain additional skillpoints from equipped magical items of +3 int can you?
Cause I end up with a spare point I have nothing to do with. Would trade it for 100gp if I could LOL.
Post edited March 06, 2020 by InEffect
Just a minor clarifying question, when recruiting the sylvan sorcerer at oleg's in your guide. Do you level up first and pay 2000 or recruit him for 500gold and then level up? I know you don't likely actually have 2000 gold, so it's probably the level 1 sorcerer you get, since you mention only wanting grease anyways. This does put this mercenary in a position to always be 4500 or so experience behind the MC. I guess after a few levels though that stops mattering?
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left1000: Just a minor clarifying question, when recruiting the sylvan sorcerer at oleg's in your guide. Do you level up first and pay 2000 or recruit him for 500gold and then level up? I know you don't likely actually have 2000 gold, so it's probably the level 1 sorcerer you get, since you mention only wanting grease anyways. This does put this mercenary in a position to always be 4500 or so experience behind the MC. I guess after a few levels though that stops mattering?
I get him asap the moment I can. there won't be any leveling to speak of without grease and mage armor. and yes the level gap is less if you hire him asap.
Post edited March 08, 2020 by InEffect
Okay so I benched amiri, only now I've just read online, she has to kill tuskgutter herself in order to resolve her personal quest. Thankfully I learned this right before the trip I've planned to go kill tuskgutter on. Do you take a level 2 amiri (mine is actually level 3 because I didn't fire her as fast as you) with you and your level 4 party to go kill tuskgutter on unfair runs? Or do you just fail companion quests? Or is there something I'm missing?

Or is it just implied in your guide that whenever you need to, you re-add a companion into the party, do whatever they want, then bench them again later?
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left1000: Okay so I benched amiri, only now I've just read online, she has to kill tuskgutter herself in order to resolve her personal quest. Thankfully I learned this right before the trip I've planned to go kill tuskgutter on. Do you take a level 2 amiri (mine is actually level 3 because I didn't fire her as fast as you) with you and your level 4 party to go kill tuskgutter on unfair runs? Or do you just fail companion quests? Or is there something I'm missing?
Level 2 is fine. All you need is her not being critted and a pet. So she gets hit once, yelps something like 'help me' and goes down. If she has a pet the boar(or any other animal she hunts) turns on the pet while your party catches up and they don't finish her up. Done.

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left1000: Or is it just implied in your guide that whenever you need to, you re-add a companion into the party, do whatever they want, then bench them again later?
Well yeah. Companion quests are free exp and gear you don't want to be missing out on. But you don't even have to gear them outside of advisor stat they use. Companion quests are easy enough to do with 4-5 people,
Post edited March 10, 2020 by InEffect
This is another silly question, but, well, I'm nearly done now with chapter 1. I still have no idea whatsoever what naga island is. I tried googling and couldn't figure out. What's the actual name on the map of the place you call naga island in your guide? I assume "naga island" is slang because there's a buncha naga's there, but well, I haven't ran into any nagas yet.

I don't want to move into chapter2 leaving something unfinished that might vanish forever.
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left1000: This is another silly question, but, well, I'm nearly done now with chapter 1. I still have no idea whatsoever what naga island is. I tried googling and couldn't figure out. What's the actual name on the map of the place you call naga island in your guide? I assume "naga island" is slang because there's a buncha naga's there, but well, I haven't ran into any nagas yet.

I don't want to move into chapter2 leaving something unfinished that might vanish forever.
It's bottom-left part of the map. To the left of stag lord. map is an island with two fords and some dead dude with a boat.
Only things missable are quests, including companion quests. The rest you can do later.
Post edited March 17, 2020 by InEffect
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left1000: This is another silly question, but, well, I'm nearly done now with chapter 1. I still have no idea whatsoever what naga island is. I tried googling and couldn't figure out. What's the actual name on the map of the place you call naga island in your guide? I assume "naga island" is slang because there's a buncha naga's there, but well, I haven't ran into any nagas yet.

I don't want to move into chapter2 leaving something unfinished that might vanish forever.
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InEffect: It's bottom-left part of the map. To the left of stag lord. map is an island with two fords and some dead dude with a boat.
Only things missable are quests, including companion quests. The rest you can do later.
besides recruitment isn't amiri the only companion with a quest in chapter 1?
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left1000: besides recruitment isn't amiri the only companion with a quest in chapter 1?
Reggie and octavia are missable. You also can skip freeing companions in sycamore and those will be no more as well.
Ahh, those were so basic that I just thought they went without saying. heh. sorry.
In chapter 1 is beating ratnook hill worth using my signed scroll of raise dead on? I've tried this fight a couple of times and it seems like no matter what I do someone random will die, simply because the alchemist doesn't actually stop attacking unconscious characters.

Or should I just move onto the stag lord beat chapter 1 and I'll have plenty of chance to return to ratnook hill in chapter 2? I don't really need the equipment until I get maybe ekun and jubi to put the magical armors on, and the way things are going I basically have no kurki users until noknok.
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left1000: In chapter 1 is beating ratnook hill worth using my signed scroll of raise dead on? I've tried this fight a couple of times and it seems like no matter what I do someone random will die, simply because the alchemist doesn't actually stop attacking unconscious characters.

Or should I just move onto the stag lord beat chapter 1 and I'll have plenty of chance to return to ratnook hill in chapter 2? I don't really need the equipment until I get maybe ekun and jubi to put the magical armors on, and the way things are going I basically have no kurki users until noknok.
By the time you should be fighting those you'd have animate dead of your own. And communal resistance. Which is perfectly doable in act 1, but the location isn't going anywhere if you find it too hard - can do it later just as fine..
Post edited March 20, 2020 by InEffect