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Hello :-) Ive just started to get a little interested in the MM games again.. I played these MANY years ago and well in those times they were also great fun but all that knowledge is litterally gone now.. I just played MMX Legacy and well fun and all as it is.. i started to miss the old games.. and now im about to start on MM6 Mandate of Heaven..

Hope this is one to start With or is there other games in the series i should play first?

Anyway... I have problems With deciding making a party.. and having ocd as i do i cant play further until i know ive made the right Choices at creating my party or i will start over and over and over again...

Ive been Reading a bit around and figured this so far :
And by the way. I installed TCC modification for the game i read there are a few changes and such.. but can any tell me the real big gamechangers in this mod that i should know off ?


Knight
Squire
Cleric? ( maybe druid is better )
Mage ( is a must have i read)

This is my current party as i see it.. I just read Cleric isnt needed but a druid is a better Choice.. So someone please help me :-)

Another thing i have a bit problems in choosing is.. The attribute numbers.. I have no idea what numbers i should put on each characters attributes...

Starting skills.. which char gets what?

Knight: Shield and bodybuilding to start With ?
Squire : Disarm and Perception ?
Cleric : Animus and meditation ( same goes for if i choose druid)
Mage : Aeors and meditation

Also i read Aqua is a Magic i need.. is this best put on cleric/druid?

Hope someone can help me so i can get started playing the game :-) Any contribution towards a good party build.. and tips of any sort is very welcome
I found the Druid a good replacement for the Cleric.

Plus--- all the Elemental Magics plus Spirit, Body and Mind magics.

Minus--- Clerics can get Light and Dark Magic; Druids cannot.

Light magic has significant protection and buff spells, and Dark Magic has "Shrapnel"

As for a perfect party, I've tried various combinations and like: Knight, Sorcerer, Druid, Sorcerer. This is a heavy Elemental Magic Party.

Others like an Archer which I find useful early on but soon becomes the weakest player.

Though I think MM6 favors magic, some like to brawl and would go with a Knight-loaded party.

The perfect party will depend how you play.
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macAilpin: I found the Druid a good replacement for the Cleric.

Plus--- all the Elemental Magics plus Spirit, Body and Mind magics.

Minus--- Clerics can get Light and Dark Magic; Druids cannot.

Light magic has significant protection and buff spells, and Dark Magic has "Shrapnel"

As for a perfect party, I've tried various combinations and like: Knight, Sorcerer, Druid, Sorcerer. This is a heavy Elemental Magic Party.

Others like an Archer which I find useful early on but soon becomes the weakest player.

Though I think MM6 favors magic, some like to brawl and would go with a Knight-loaded party.

The perfect party will depend how you play.
What do you think is a good starting skills for my party ? Im stressing With what number i should put my attributes at.. And now i went With a party here With 2 mages a druid and a priest..

Im running the TCC addon.. Do you know about this if this changes Things alot when it comes to what party is viable ?

Also how do i turn combat mode on Turn based? i cant see this option anywhere : \
Post edited September 13, 2014 by piokken
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macAilpin: I found the Druid a good replacement for the Cleric.

Plus--- all the Elemental Magics plus Spirit, Body and Mind magics.

Minus--- Clerics can get Light and Dark Magic; Druids cannot.

Light magic has significant protection and buff spells, and Dark Magic has "Shrapnel"

As for a perfect party, I've tried various combinations and like: Knight, Sorcerer, Druid, Sorcerer. This is a heavy Elemental Magic Party.

Others like an Archer which I find useful early on but soon becomes the weakest player.

Though I think MM6 favors magic, some like to brawl and would go with a Knight-loaded party.

The perfect party will depend how you play.
avatar
piokken: What do you think is a good starting skills for my party ? Im stressing With what number i should put my attributes at.. And now i went With a party here With 2 mages a druid and a priest..

Im running the TCC addon.. Do you know about this if this changes Things alot when it comes to what party is viable ?

Also how do i turn combat mode on Turn based? i cant see this option anywhere : \
Turn-base-- Hit Enter on Keyboard, End by hitting Enter again.

What I do: Bows for those who can get them. I try to get Skills that aid in protecting my players because of early vulnerability. Fire and Air Magic are a must but (depending on how you start) may already be part of your players' kits. (You need torch and Wizard Eye).

Then minimize points in your players' characteristics that aren't needed (Sorcerers Need Intelligence but not Personality), then maximize points in you players' strengths; lower Luck; increase constitution for early hit points.

No early Muscle man could be tough; but later on that could be a fun party.

TCC- Don't know.

Hope this helps
Post edited September 13, 2014 by macAilpin
You'll need water at master for the town portal and lloyd's beacon spells.
Also the acid damage done by water is one to which not many monsters are resistant. Very useful against beholders and the like.

In my game I relied more on "might" than "magic", which seems to be different from the way most people play it.
Post edited September 13, 2014 by ZFR
Any of you know how it works with TCC and what party setup.. skills and attributes that would be good ?
Warning, spoilers ahead!

Basically, I go with Might rather than Magic myself. But with a large helping of magic. Except for AoE spells, most characters will dish out more pain with weapons than with magic.

There are a bunch of ways to set up a party. Light Magic is quite useful, so you want someone who can cast it. Presumably Dark would also be interesting (both Day of Protecttion and Shrapmetal are Dark spells, but the former is really more of a convenience than anything else). But it must be a real challenge to get your Reputation low enough to attain mastery. Since the mobs outside can be VERY large, I like to have three characters who can make it rain (i.e., use area-of-effect spells). I also like to have three healers, but that is not always possible.

I recently started a group of Priest, Archer, Druid, Druid, and much to my amazement they are kicking monster butt. However, I did use an editor to allow my druids to use spears and daggers.

For combat purposes, dual-wielding in this game FTW. The to-hit bonuses of both weapons are added together, and so is the damage. Believe it or not, a dual-dagger mage with two Divine Daggers that do extra damage may be your best killing machine. With Hour of Power and Day of the Gods, he can hit for 100 points, which is enough to get the attention of most monsters. Dual Lionheart swords are also quite nice, but the killer is a Titanic Trident of the Dragon and a Lionheart Sword with a good enchantment. You can get those at Abdul's in the desert if you're patient enough.

Bows are critical. CRITICAL. I think it would be just about impossible to get through even Sorpigal without them. Deliver the letter, jump on the coach to Ironfist, and get bow ability and bows for everybody first thing. Then you can nibble around the edges of the huge mobs and slowly whittle them down.

Skills for the party? Some skills are really convenient, others are useful in combat. Keeping in mind the fact that you're going to be 7th level about a game week after you start the game, you don't have to pump up the combat skills immediately, especially as your best early bet to improve attack ability is to find a weapon with a decent bonus. Disarm should be raised to Expert ASAP, IMO, because even the low-level chests can be buggered with nasty traps. I like to get Expert in Identify and Repair early, simply for the convenience of them. And Water Mastery is also something you want to do fast. I'm doing another group (I enjoy starting groups in this game) with a Druid who made Water Master at 11th level, which is pretty early. He used horseshoes to build up some other skills. Learning, Meditate, and Bodybuilder are useful, although I usually don't raise them beyond Expert (or at least, not until I'm over 50th level and have Mastered everything else). Diplomacy is about useless. You do want to pick up a couple of NPCs, but most will join you at Respectable reputation or even worse. I like to go with a Banker and a Merchant, but other combos could probably be useful. It's just that money is so tight before you have bought all the good spells, every little bit helps.

You only need Bow skill and one other weapon skill, unless you want to dual-wield a dagger and a spear, in which case you should probably start with Dagger and do Spear later. Despite the suggestion of the locals, I've never run into a monster that is immune to one weapon but not another. So no need to learn a bunch of them, just Master your primary as and when you can. Dagger Expertise will get you dual-wielding, but swords require Mastery. Fortunately, Sword Mastery is also free. As for armor and shield skills, I ignore them until the important stuff is maxed out. As with many RPGs, AC is not very important, since by the time you get decent AC, most of the monsters cut through it like tissue paper anyway. I have a Paladin with AC 175, and she still gets knocked around in h-t-h combat.

Mix your Black potions ASAP; you should have enough herbs in Sorpigal and Ironfist to make enough for everybody by March of '65. You might also consider, when using Black potions, not raising non-critical stats so you don't waste potions. A Paladin does not need an INT boost, a mage does not need a Personality boost, etc. And only your lock picker needs Luck, the rest of your chars can raise it to 15 anyway through the Sorpigal fountain.

As to your what classes you want, Paladin, Archer, Druid and Mage covers you for Light, 3 offensive mages, and 2 healing mages. (These days, I like to use the Editor to let my Mage cast healing spells, too, just for the convenience) If you want to use Light or Dark magic, you need either a Priest or a Mage; I doubt there is much value in having two Light Magic users, so it's basically one or the other. Since the Mage has one of the easiest initial promotion quests going (one you can achieve in January of '65, if you try), and since he has the offensive punch, both magically and in melee, I tend to lean towards them. A Priest cannot dual-wield (and neither can a Druid unless you edit him.:)) A knight is about worthless. You've got only four guys, they should all cast spells. Yeah, a Knight has an easy initial promotion (but one of the toughest second promotions), but so what? All he does is fight, and he's no better at it than anyone else with comparable skills and attributes. You could take a knight and concentrate all the support skills in him (Disarm, Identify, etc), but you could do the same thing with a Paladin. Anyway, Identify and Repair are free to Mages from the start, so you might just want to use them and concentrate on one magic school. With a Paladin-Archer-Druid-Mage (or Paladin-Druid-Druid-Mage) group, the Archer would concentrate on Air first (and add fire soon), the Druid on Water (and add Fire later), and the Mage on Fire. Later on, you'll want two Water Masters so you can plant Lloyd's Beacons in some of the remoter regions; your first Water Master will used all his up after Ironfist, Kriegspire, etc.

As for attributes: aside from raising one char's STR to 25 (which cen become 50 very, very quickly, which is actually important), you want to concentrate on raising PER and INT as appropriate for your spellcasters. I usually raise everything but Luck to at least 10 for everybody (no need to put any points into Luck, since Sorpigal has a fountain that will raise that to 15 permanently). Your initial stats are not too important, since there shrines, potions, fountains, and equipment that will raise them to high levels (125 STR, anyone?)

It's a madhouse of a game, lots of fun, though. Save you coin, get to Free Haven by May for the Shrine and the major spells, and you'll be just fine.

-- Mal
Post edited September 14, 2014 by malthaussen
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macAilpin: I found the Druid a good replacement for the Cleric.

Plus--- all the Elemental Magics plus Spirit, Body and Mind magics.

Minus--- Clerics can get Light and Dark Magic; Druids cannot.

Light magic has significant protection and buff spells, and Dark Magic has "Shrapnel"

As for a perfect party, I've tried various combinations and like: Knight, Sorcerer, Druid, Sorcerer. This is a heavy Elemental Magic Party.

Others like an Archer which I find useful early on but soon becomes the weakest player.

Though I think MM6 favors magic, some like to brawl and would go with a Knight-loaded party.

The perfect party will depend how you play.
I'll dispute that Archers become the "weakest" character. I think they beat Priest and Knight.

Archers can dual-wield. Priests can't. Archers can make it rain. Priests can't. Archers have more HP, Priests have more SP. They both have the same limits on armor. And a Lionheart sword of Infernos does more damage than a Death Mace of Infernos. So the only thing Priests have over Archers is the ability to cast Light/Dark spells. But then, only Mages can compete there, so the fairer comparison would be Priest/Mage for that issue. There's not a lot to choose between their promotion quests, either. It's harder to clear out Icewind Keep than it is to run past the harpies and Magyars to Lord Stone, but the Warrior Mage quest is dead simple, so that the Archer will quickly reach his top level once he's reached his second level. With a water Master and Town Portal, that's done immediately, whereas the Priest has to get to Bootleg Bay (did you remember to put a Beacon there?) and kill the Minotaur King to earn his second promotion. Marginally tougher, providing the King doesn't get lucky with his Fingers of Death.

Knights? Please. They fight no better than anyone else, and fighting is all they do. Their first Promotion quest is a walk (ha ha), but the second one is brute tough. They get a bunch of hit points, so what? We're all gonna have 250+ by and by. Plate armor? Take a Paladin. At least he can bandaid the wounded.

-- Mal
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macAilpin: I found the Druid a good replacement for the Cleric.

Plus--- all the Elemental Magics plus Spirit, Body and Mind magics.

Minus--- Clerics can get Light and Dark Magic; Druids cannot.

Light magic has significant protection and buff spells, and Dark Magic has "Shrapnel"

As for a perfect party, I've tried various combinations and like: Knight, Sorcerer, Druid, Sorcerer. This is a heavy Elemental Magic Party.

Others like an Archer which I find useful early on but soon becomes the weakest player.

Though I think MM6 favors magic, some like to brawl and would go with a Knight-loaded party.

The perfect party will depend how you play.
avatar
malthaussen: I'll dispute that Archers become the "weakest" character. I think they beat Priest and Knight.

Archers can dual-wield. Priests can't. Archers can make it rain. Priests can't. Archers have more HP, Priests have more SP. They both have the same limits on armor. And a Lionheart sword of Infernos does more damage than a Death Mace of Infernos. So the only thing Priests have over Archers is the ability to cast Light/Dark spells. But then, only Mages can compete there, so the fairer comparison would be Priest/Mage for that issue. There's not a lot to choose between their promotion quests, either. It's harder to clear out Icewind Keep than it is to run past the harpies and Magyars to Lord Stone, but the Warrior Mage quest is dead simple, so that the Archer will quickly reach his top level once he's reached his second level. With a water Master and Town Portal, that's done immediately, whereas the Priest has to get to Bootleg Bay (did you remember to put a Beacon there?) and kill the Minotaur King to earn his second promotion. Marginally tougher, providing the King doesn't get lucky with his Fingers of Death.

Knights? Please. They fight no better than anyone else, and fighting is all they do. Their first Promotion quest is a walk (ha ha), but the second one is brute tough. They get a bunch of hit points, so what? We're all gonna have 250+ by and by. Plate armor? Take a Paladin. At least he can bandaid the wounded.

-- Mal
Why do people discount Flying Fist? It's a great middle spell. And you only Count offensive use in your summation. Clerics Cure, so they have both offensive and defensive use. Archers are just offense. And after level 20, having a second Sorcerer is more useful than having an Archer. Bows are great until they are pretty worthless (around level 20)-- unless you get a really good exploding bow. Bows become "Finish them off with arrows to save Mana" at that time. Finally Magic never misses (after Fire Arrow), and Arrows do. (Yes I can come up with some situation where it does; but projected spells hit their target if possible.)

And in MM6 Knights by level 40 are a repository of hit points that help you get home. That is about it mid-level game on. But they save you early on. With only the Knight having a bow in New Sorpigal at the start, I have never left the City without clearing the Mainland and all its dungeons. Doesn't take long either. (Also, this is roleplaying. How can you play without a Knight! It's, it's.... just wrong. LOL).

I admit I never counted the precise Coup from each type of player and each weapon. Played the game enough where I guess I should just know it. So you maybe right that with the right weapons the Archer turns deadly. But a second Sorcerer has always served me well.

Finally, I said weakest--- as in least important to getting the job done. But I realize weakest can also mean does least damage. And, as I said, you maybe right about death wielding Archers with the right weapons.
Bob
Edit some punctuation mistakes
Post edited September 15, 2014 by macAilpin
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malthaussen: I'll dispute that Archers become the "weakest" character. I think they beat Priest and Knight.

Archers can dual-wield. Priests can't. Archers can make it rain. Priests can't. Archers have more HP, Priests have more SP. They both have the same limits on armor. And a Lionheart sword of Infernos does more damage than a Death Mace of Infernos. So the only thing Priests have over Archers is the ability to cast Light/Dark spells. But then, only Mages can compete there, so the fairer comparison would be Priest/Mage for that issue. There's not a lot to choose between their promotion quests, either. It's harder to clear out Icewind Keep than it is to run past the harpies and Magyars to Lord Stone, but the Warrior Mage quest is dead simple, so that the Archer will quickly reach his top level once he's reached his second level. With a water Master and Town Portal, that's done immediately, whereas the Priest has to get to Bootleg Bay (did you remember to put a Beacon there?) and kill the Minotaur King to earn his second promotion. Marginally tougher, providing the King doesn't get lucky with his Fingers of Death.

Knights? Please. They fight no better than anyone else, and fighting is all they do. Their first Promotion quest is a walk (ha ha), but the second one is brute tough. They get a bunch of hit points, so what? We're all gonna have 250+ by and by. Plate armor? Take a Paladin. At least he can bandaid the wounded.

-- Mal
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macAilpin: Why do people discount Flying Fist? It's a great middle spell. And you only Count offensive use in your summation. Clerics Cure, so they have both offensive and defensive use. Archers are just offense. And after level 20, having a second Sorcerer is more useful than having an Archer. Bows are great until they are pretty worthless (around level 20)-- unless you get a really good exploding bow. Bows become "Finish them off with arrows to save Mana" at that time. Finally Magic never misses (after Fire Arrow), and Arrows do. (Yes I can come up with some situation where it does; but projected spells hit their target if possible.)

And in MM6 Knights by level 40 are a repository of hit points that help you get home. That is about it mid-level game on. But they save you early on. With only the Knight having a bow in New Sorpigal at the start, I have never left the City without clearing the Mainland and all its dungeons. Doesn't take long either. (Also, this is roleplaying. How can you play without a Knight! It's, it's.... just wrong. LOL).

I admit I never counted the precise Coup from each type of player and each weapon. Played the game enough where I guess I should just know it. So you maybe right that with the right weapons the Archer turns deadly. But a second Sorcerer has always served me well.

Finally, I said weakest--- as in least important to getting the job done. But I realize weakest can also mean does least damage. And, as I said, you maybe right about death wielding Archers with the right weapons.
Bob
Edit some punctuation mistakes
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I discount Flying Fist because I never seem to do any damage with it. Seems like most of the high-level monsters are pretty resistant to Body damage. The point about Knights serving as a HP pool has merit, but if you're in such bad shape a quick LB or TP serves just as well. I suppose it could save time if you're deep in one of the Never-Ending Dungeons, though.

Two sorcerers isn't a bad idea. Not much to choose between combat abilities, and the mage has lots more spell points. But then, I didn't say the Archer was superior to the Mage.:)

-- Mal