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Master of MagicSuggestions for improvements for an upgraded version of MoM(18 posts)(18 posts)
(18 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 23, 2012
Let me explain that I really don't mean to say that this is a thread regarding MoM2 but basically a bit more recent version of the same game with just a few tweaks to make things work better. You know little things in game that kind of annoy you with how they currently work that you would kind of liked to see fixed/improved to make MoM a bit better. Some things that perhaps couldn't be implemented back then when it first came out. I am NOT talking about graphics really although I would not be adverse to a tiny bit of improvement.

1. Exploring Ruins - There really needs to be a better way to see what is inside an how many. I really hate coming up on one that has ghouls and thinking it should be ok to fight but then their being 8 friggin units to fight. Perhaps it would have to be a Hero or special monster skill but still needs to be better.

2. Tactical Combat - I think they need to implement a better Tactical Combat initiative. It kind of sucks that the defender when it's the computer can fire off all it's attacks and retreat before you get to retaliate. This could perhaps be fixed with individual units being able to retreat instead of the whole team. This way you could potentially save units that are almost dead as well.

3. Summoned Creatures - Why not let them get Exp??? I mean since you still have to pay their upkeep every turn they SHOULD be able to get better.


Will probably post more in a bit but these are enough for now. Anyone else have any good ideas?
Posted December 24, 2012
I would like to have a more streamlined and smooth interface.

The menus are cumbersome and require to much navigation. Also some options like automatic roadbuilding should be existant. Having a better overview of your cities would be really neat to.

I just think that the interface needs a revamp.

Also combat could use some smoothing to , more fluid movements and a better tileset. Also give some terrain advantages and make cities bigger.
Posted December 25, 2012
Yeah, I hate that defensive fire spell and retreat. Especially since the odds seem heavily biased for the computer retreating, and its just unneeded.
Apart from that, all I really want to see (to start with) is some graphics and interface upgrades, maybe slightly more in-game info on building trees
Posted December 28, 2012
My ponderings about a potential MoM successor tend to hinge on what needs to change, and what needs to stay the same, to make it feel like a true MoM successor and not just another, potentially good, fantasy strategy game.

What needs to stay the same is the empire building aspect, many races with the ability to have several within your empire, and some form of tactical combat.

What needs to change? Well, even more than the graphics, the bugs and glaring balance issues. Some things in a complex game like this will be overpowered or underpowered, but to really go off the scale, it should take some planning. It shouldn't just be "Play Halflings. Choose Life Magic. Win."

Then the graphics, but that's almost inevitable. You'd have to work really hard to get a game made these days with graphics that primitive. It's almost 20 years old! I wouldn't call graphics a priority, but just something modern, if done competently, will be a huge improvement. That goes for the UI design as well.

Finally, the tactical combat could use a big upgrade. I'd personally favor something akin to the Total War pausable real time combat system, with small units because fantasy tends to be a genre that favors small units of really awesome guys, and not huge faceless armies locked in gigantic formations.

Oh, and I want a pony too.
Posted February 04, 2013
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rakenan: What needs to change? Well, even more than the graphics, the bugs and glaring balance issues. Some things in a complex game like this will be overpowered or underpowered, but to really go off the scale, it should take some planning. It shouldn't just be "Play Halflings. Choose Life Magic. Win."
While I agree it could be a bit better, I think that the lack of balance is also part of what makes it fun. Most of the games that tried to serve as successors to Master of Magic tried to balance things better, and as a result they tend to have fewer really fun game-changing powers -- Fallen Enchantress suffers from this big time; way too many spells are just "+X stat", because they wanted the AI to be able to handle it and wanted to be sure it was balanced properly.
Posted February 04, 2013
I have a hard time selecting units and moving them when they are behind walls, so a top down view would be nice.
Posted February 06, 2013
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rakenan: What needs to change? Well, even more than the graphics, the bugs and glaring balance issues. Some things in a complex game like this will be overpowered or underpowered, but to really go off the scale, it should take some planning. It shouldn't just be "Play Halflings. Choose Life Magic. Win."
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Aquillion: While I agree it could be a bit better, I think that the lack of balance is also part of what makes it fun. Most of the games that tried to serve as successors to Master of Magic tried to balance things better, and as a result they tend to have fewer really fun game-changing powers -- Fallen Enchantress suffers from this big time; way too many spells are just "+X stat", because they wanted the AI to be able to handle it and wanted to be sure it was balanced properly.
I don't want the game dumbed down to make the AI look less stupid. I just want glaring imbalances of allegedly equivalent player choices to involve careful planning and a good many choices, instead of being a trivial combo of a particular race and a particular magic school.

If you work your way to the end of your spell research and get your very rare spells going, it's fine if the combo you choose enables an "I Win!" button. But having that button active from pretty much the first turn of the game, or alternatively being doomed to mediocrity because you chose Klackons with Death Magic and Infernal Power, just doesn't sit well with me. There should be some real utility in every race, in every spell book, and in every retort. While there will inevitably be some combos that are better than others, the difference should not be anywhere near what you get when you compare the Klackons I put together above to a Halflings, Life Magic, Warlord game.
Posted March 07, 2013
Yeah, I know. I'm certainly not going to argue with the idea that Halflings could stand to be a bit weaker and Klackons could use a buff.

But my experience has been that every would-be successor to MoM has worried too much about the balance factor and not enough about capturing the diversity and broad differences in playstyles that made the game fun. I think it's more important (especially in a single-player game) to make sure that every option plays differently, rather than balancing them -- who cares if playing Klackons is hard mode and Halflings are easy mode? It's much more important to make both games distinct.

(They shouldn't be so hard or so easy that they cease to be fun, of course. But I don't see any particular reason why they need to be balanced against each other as long as they both provide unique things.)
Post edited March 07, 2013 by Aquillion
Posted March 12, 2013
An uninspired game will take the choice of mechanical balance over variety and atmosphere every time. I've seen it again and again. That does not mean that an inspired game should make the opposite decision. The correct decision is to keep the two factors in balance, so the game embraces a good variety of play choices without introducing massive balance problems from trivial and early decisions.

Master of Magic is great in spite of its balance flaws, not because of them. It is *FAR* more imbalanced than it needs to be in order to feel epic, powerful, and otherwise awesome.

As for who cares if Klackons are hard mode and Halflings easy mode - how about people who actually desire a different combination of racial theme/style and difficulty? Like bug-men but don't *WANT* hard mode, and want to feel effective? Yeah, not even difficulty settings will let you get that out of MoM. You can cripple the AI by choosing an easy difficulty level, but that's not getting an effective empire, it's reducing all opposition to the level if passive target dummies who cannot win even if you do nothing at all.
Posted March 30, 2013
Really? You guys are limiting it to graphics and issues of game balance? I haven't played the game much myself, but that's because it's missing a plethora of features. I bought MoM here because everyone hails it like it's the Holy Grail of strategy. That couldn't be further from the truth... the game is terribly boring. So here is my incomplete list of -necessary- features for any future release of this title:

1: The game needs better pacing - I can't even tell you how bored I get clicking "next turn" so often. It's sickening. This is without a doubt the #1 problem with the game.

2: Magic powers?? - again I didn't play for long but I certainly didn't find what I was expecting. I imagined myself cursing enemy settlements with disease and using augury to see things far beyond the borders of my lands. During gameplay I experienced nothing fun or remarkable of this variety. There was typical unit summoning, then watching those units get crushed in the first battle I fought while hopelessly casting some pathetic attack spells hoping to overwhelm the enemy with my nonexistent powers. I felt weak... not like the archmage I wanted to be so badly playing this game. I think I speak for everyone who likes cool, unstoppable powers more than a "balanced" (boring) match against mobs.

3: A more grand design of strategy - Anyone truly familiar with the term will know that strategy is not the active side of warfare... it is the passive planning and waiting for an opportune moment... the forays into enemy settlements between pitched battles. Tactical warfare and huge epic battles are great, but the game sorely lacks what I would call strategy. Where are the spy units that move three times faster than soldiers? Where are the emissaries or agents you can send to enemy settlements to create support for your cause or sabotage their assets? Maybe I couldn't stand the boring start to the game long enough to see these things, but whatever the case I didn't see them. Again, the ability to cast game altering spells outside of battle would be really nice.

4: Better mechanics - everything from the menus to battles. Since I'm not really a big fan of turn based I'll just be bold and say this game deserves real time battles... It would certainly be tricky to pull off, especially controlling the massive hordes I imagine we could control in a modern sequel, but I think the payoff would be well worth it. I think with some customizable unit scripting it would even be possible to outmatch some great enemy AI in real time, controlling your elite or more pivotal units while the sponges do their job and advance/attack as ordered.

I could expand on this if I played for an hour, but I'm not feeling like a masochist today so I'm off to play something fun. Please don't take this the wrong way either, I really want to love MoM... I do. We need a sequel that blows the original out of the water.
Posted April 01, 2013
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YourInnerCancer: 1: The game needs better pacing - I can't even tell you how bored I get clicking "next turn" so often. It's sickening. This is without a doubt the #1 problem with the game.
True, as most TBS games, the "Next Turn" will bore you to death. It doesn't mean though that the turns will be empty, or devoid of things to do.

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YourInnerCancer: 2: Magic powers?? - again I didn't play for long but I certainly didn't find what I was expecting. I imagined myself cursing enemy settlements with disease and using augury to see things far beyond the borders of my lands. During gameplay I experienced nothing fun or remarkable of this variety. There was typical unit summoning, then watching those units get crushed in the first battle I fought while hopelessly casting some pathetic attack spells hoping to overwhelm the enemy with my nonexistent powers. I felt weak... not like the archmage I wanted to be so badly playing this game. I think I speak for everyone who likes cool, unstoppable powers more than a "balanced" (boring) match against mobs.
Time Stop, Mass Invisibility, Greater Unsummoning, Sky Drake, Spring of Life, Incarnation, Meteor Storm, Crusade, Evil Omens, Death Wish, Armageddon, Chaos Surge, Great Wasting, Nature Wrath, Charm of Life. All those are extremely powerful spells, but also extremely rare. You won't get them until the endgame, and you will need to specialize in a school of magic, not dabble in all to be able to get them. It's more or less complaining that you don't have access to nukes in the first 5 minutes of Starcraft.

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YourInnerCancer: 3: A more grand design of strategy - Anyone truly familiar with the term will know that strategy is not the active side of warfare... it is the passive planning and waiting for an opportune moment... the forays into enemy settlements between pitched battles. Tactical warfare and huge epic battles are great, but the game sorely lacks what I would call strategy. Where are the spy units that move three times faster than soldiers? Where are the emissaries or agents you can send to enemy settlements to create support for your cause or sabotage their assets? Maybe I couldn't stand the boring start to the game long enough to see these things, but whatever the case I didn't see them. Again, the ability to cast game altering spells outside of battle would be really nice.
Nightblades are invisible fast units, that you can use to keep tabs on the enemy territory (if you don't have Awareness or Nature Awareness active), or to block parts of enchanted roads. As for town loyalties, there are a few random events for neutral towns, but you can't modify the opponents' towns, other than through the use of high magic.

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YourInnerCancer: 4: Better mechanics - everything from the menus to battles. Since I'm not really a big fan of turn based I'll just be bold and say this game deserves real time battles... It would certainly be tricky to pull off, especially controlling the massive hordes I imagine we could control in a modern sequel, but I think the payoff would be well worth it. I think with some customizable unit scripting it would even be possible to outmatch some great enemy AI in real time, controlling your elite or more pivotal units while the sponges do their job and advance/attack as ordered.
The game does need better mechanics, in the same way X-Com - UFO Defense needs them. The mechanics worked fine for that age, but since then, better mechanics have been used. So it can benefit quite a bit from a gui overhaul, and give as a proper build queue for example, but RT combat will really rob it of its combat charm.

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YourInnerCancer: I could expand on this if I played for an hour, but I'm not feeling like a masochist today so I'm off to play something fun. Please don't take this the wrong way either, I really want to love MoM... I do. We need a sequel that blows the original out of the water.
I agree that for quite a few games, if they don't capture you in the first 10-20 minutes, you are not going to like them. But almost all of your complaints are about things you get access to in the later game. So I'd say hang in there, and give it another try at some point in the future.

Oh, and war bears and sprites will tear you apart in the first 50 turns or so, so stay away from those ruins until you get some proper ranged fighters, and a few melee to guard them. Or sprites.
Posted April 01, 2013
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JMich: So it can benefit quite a bit from a gui overhaul, and give as a proper build queue for example, but RT combat will really rob it of its combat charm.
I'm not convinced of this particular point. I think a decent unit-based real time combat system, like the Total War series, could work well with Master of Magic. That said, I'm also not opposed to keeping the combat system turn based, as long as it is at least slightly less abusable than the original combat system. Focusing too much on the combat system runs the risk of turning the game from an empire builder with tactical combat to a tactical combat game with battles superficially bound together by an overland campaign, which would be a crying shame. Combats should usually be fairly quick, no matter what else happens to the game, or you run the real risk of an unintended genre shift.
Posted April 02, 2013
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JMich: It's more or less complaining that you don't have access to nukes in the first 5 minutes of Starcraft.
This.
Posted April 18, 2013
Real-time combat would be a major turnoff. I want to out-think the enemy, not out-click them.

One other thing re: sabotaging enemy cities - since having an enemy unit in one of your city's tiles reduces your city's output, effectively by rendering the city unable to use that tile, it may be the case (I've never tested this) that your opponents are also subject to this and their cities could at least be rendered less productive (and maybe experience starvation in more extreme cases) if you surrounded them with your own units.
Posted April 20, 2013
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Aquillion: Yeah, I know. I'm certainly not going to argue with the idea that Halflings could stand to be a bit weaker and Klackons could use a buff.

But my experience has been that every would-be successor to MoM has worried too much about the balance factor and not enough about capturing the diversity and broad differences in playstyles that made the game fun. I think it's more important (especially in a single-player game) to make sure that every option plays differently, rather than balancing them -- who cares if playing Klackons is hard mode and Halflings are easy mode? It's much more important to make both games distinct.

(They shouldn't be so hard or so easy that they cease to be fun, of course. But I don't see any particular reason why they need to be balanced against each other as long as they both provide unique things.)
This. (Also your conclusion on Fallen Enchantress is spot on.)
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Master of MagicSuggestions for improvements for an upgraded version of MoM(18 posts)(18 posts)
(18 posts)