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Master of MagicArtificer & Runemaster Build; help me tweak this(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 24, 2013
EvilLoynis, ever since you recommended runemaster to me, I have been in love with this build, there are so many possibilities; things that have never occurred in my previous games.

The goal is to use Artificer and Runemaster to reduce Create Artifact casting price (and time) by 75%. This makes crafting obscenely powerful items quite easy, even at the beginning of the game!

Artifiicer: no brainer.
Runemaster: to get this requires 2 books in 3 schools, so 7 total picks.
3 extra picks

There's two things to tweak. First is which schools of magic to put the 2 books in. Second is what to use the remaining 3 picks on.

For the 3 schools of magic here are my preferences
2 Life (strong) Item enchants are weak, but allows Heroism or Healing spell choice at the start.
2 Chaos (strong) Allows Flaming enchant on weapons, but common spells are mostly weak
2 Death (weak) Weapon enchants are almost non-existant, Black Sleep is decent.
2 Nature (weak) Weapon enchants are terrible, Stone Skin is okay.
2 Sorcery (fair) Weapon enchants are fair, but Phantom Warriors are great.

The 3 extra picks are where this build skyrockets in interest. The weapon enchants available in create artifact are dependent on the number of books you have in a school of magic. This makes those last 3 picks incredibly crucial and entertaining (for someone like me).

EDIT: Added TwoHandedSword's list of available enchants
Life 2: Bless & Endurance
Life 3: Holy Avenger
Life 4: RIghteousness
Life 5: Invulnerability & Planar Travel
Life 6: Lion Heart & True Sight

Death 2: Cloak of Fear
Death 3: Death
Death 4: Wraithform & Power Drain
Death 5: Vampiric (Life Drain)

Chaos 2: Flaming
Chaos 5: Lightning & Destruction
Chaos 6: Chaos

Nature 2: Water Walking, Resist Elements & Petrify
Nature 3: Pathfinding & Giant Strength
Nature 4: Elemental Armor
Nature 6: Regeneration

Sorcery 2: Resist Magic
Sorcery 3: Flight & Guardian Wind
Sorcery 5: Invisibility & Magic Immunity
Sorcery 6: Phantasmal
Sorcery 7: Haste

You can also spend the 3 picks on retorts!
The very first build I did was Warlord + 1 life; this makes impossible become easy mode. Ultra Elite units combined with decked out heroes; totally overpowered.
Alchemy is useful, since early game there isn't much mana to go around.
Myrran is fun, but it SUBSTANTIALLY reduces the possible enchants on items.

If you're still reading this insanely long post... there's more! Since you have so many schools of magic, you can trade enchant item and create artifact to other wizards for INSANE things... I've gotten flame blade, doom bat, efreet, warp lightning, phantom beast and even prosperity once (I think)...

ONCE YOU'VE TRADED FOR THOSE SPELLS, PUT THEM ON ITEMS TROLLLLLLLOLOOLOLOLOL, STAFF OF WARP LIGHTNING x4 FOR ONLY a FEW HUNDRED MANA, hahaha

okay I ran out of energy.
Post edited May 25, 2013 by SamKuker101
Posted May 24, 2013
Apparently I've barely scratched the surface of all the strategy this game has to offer. Been playing it too much like Civ and ignoring all the crazy possibilities of magic, races, heroes, items, etc.
Posted May 24, 2013
Hahaha, just got Zaldron, made him two items and he walked over the nearby computers 7 cities.

+4 atk, +3 def, flaming, Phantom Warriors x4 staff for 600
+3 atk, +3 def, flight, magic immunity amulet for 438

I had to melee attack a fair bit but he was already invincible to spearman
Post edited May 24, 2013 by SamKuker101
Posted May 24, 2013
I have usually done the Articer + Runemaster combo and added Myrror as I always play on Impossible with 4 comps. Sadly usually all or all but 1 of the computers end up on my side when I DON'T this. Because of the various ways the computer rampantly cheats there is no way to really expand, build your forces and build structures safely. One of the most annoying things is that computer can safely send out lone settlers but you cannot if you want them to survive.

Not to mention I always try to make sure my home town starts with Adamantium. Also Myrron gives the starting +5 Mana per turn which seriously speeds up getting those artifacts.

Also I agree with trading the Enchant/Create spells. I have been able to get Chaos Channels, Cracks Call, Just Cause, Summon Hero, Summon Champion, Wind Walking, Pathfinding, Flight and various other spells for them but these listed are the ones I will usually only take as I find them the most useful.

For spell books I always choose 2 Chaos (flaming) and 2 Life. The last is usually Nature as they have good early spells like web to deal with flyers, not to mention repairing the land around your cities to make them better and even transforming resources if you like.

However now that I see what 5 Sorcery books gets I may change my mind next game. I mean with the artifact combo Flight only takes 50 on a Misc item. This would be super useful early on not to mention that Magic Immunity only costs 175 and you can put it on anything. Invisibility may be fun to play with being that it's only 250 as well considering it basically gives you better than Missile Immunity, in relation to ranged attacks.

Invisibiltiy 250 (1k) Misc only
Flight 50 (200) Misc only
Magic Immunity 175 (700) anything

The major downside to the 5 spellbooks is that, especially on impossible, your mana generation is really not going to meet your needs. This is especially hard todo with an Arcanian race as the only one that gives power is High Elves and they grow pretty slowly. Halfings sadly cannot get the University to help with Research either.

Sadly the one thing I hate about the Runemaster & Artificer combo is the lack of really being able to choose my usually Myrron + Warlord. I also hate to roll out any real troops until I get Alchemists guild for Adamantium weapons. Perhaps this is my major failing though.
Post edited May 24, 2013 by EvilLoynis
Posted May 25, 2013
And don't forget that Artificer + Runemaster means a shitload of mana, since breaking an artifact gives you 50% of base mana cost. So a staff that would normally cost 1000 mana to create wil give you back 500 mana when you break it, even if the Artificer+Runemastar makes it cost 250 for you to make. Not sure if that has been changed, but I seem to recall it working.
Posted May 25, 2013
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JMich: And don't forget that Artificer + Runemaster means a shitload of mana, since breaking an artifact gives you 50% of base mana cost. So a staff that would normally cost 1000 mana to create wil give you back 500 mana when you break it, even if the Artificer+Runemastar makes it cost 250 for you to make. Not sure if that has been changed, but I seem to recall it working.
JMich YOU ARE BRILLIANT. I had totally forgotten about this and it's totally easy to forget especially if your not used to thinking like that as most games do not let you make mana/gold so easy.

I just tested it out with a piece of Armor I made that had +8 Def (+2 from being a Plate), + 4 Movement and +4 Resist that costs me only 563 to make (normally 2250 - 75% from combo). If I junk this piece I get 1125 back enough to make 2 more !!! ;)

Now that I know this I can take advantage of it early on to make lower items and not be worried about wasting mana as I will actually be making mana. Spell Caster Heroes will be the best as you will be cranking out artifacts so quickly and therefore getting so much more mana back. With Alchemy you could easily convert to gold income.
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SamKuker101: EvilLoynis, ever since you recommended runemaster to me, I have been in love with this build, there are so many possibilities; things that have never occurred in my previous games.

There's two things to tweak. First is which schools of magic to put the 2 books in. Second is what to use the remaining 3 picks on.

2 Nature (weak) Weapon enchants are terrible, Stone Skin is okay.

At 5 Nature picks, you get crap, haha
SamK I didn't know enough previously but you really overlooked all the Nature buffs you get. At 2 Nature Books you get Water Walking and Stoning, at 3 Pathfinding. At 4 Books you get Elemental Armor that goes on anything.

Stoning gives your Hero Stone Touch -1, When the Hero makes a Melee Attack, the LEAD figure in the target unit must Resist at -1 or die (although it still gets to deal it's damage before dying). Only available on Weapons, Costs only 38/150 and 2 Nature Books

Water Walking, same as spell lets your Hero move across water. Available on Misc items, costs 25/100 and takes 2 Nature Books.

Pathfinding, same as spell but so important in my opinion if you don't want to take forever. Available on Misc items, costs 50/200 and takes 3 Nature Books.

Elemental Armor improves Defense and Resistance to Chaos/Nature spells AND fantastic creatures by +10. It's Resist Elements on crack lol as that one gives only +3. Can be put on anything, costs only 125/500 4 Nature Books.

REGENERATION, oh my we all should know how this helps in battle if you have ever fought off Trolls. It also gives your Hero the ability to pop back to life as long as your army wins the battle. Good if you perhaps have a party of 2 Heroes. Goes on Misc items, costs 375/1500 but sadly takes 6 Nature Books.

Also you missed the fact that Flight is available with only 3 Sorcery Books, this opens up possibilities.

For the Death books the "Death" ability is available on weapons with only 3 books. When using a melee attack the lead figure in the target unit must Resist at -3 or be destroyed. Costs 100/400, 3 Death Books, only on weapons.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by EvilLoynis
Posted May 25, 2013
Point of order: you don't max out potential item enchantments at 5 books.

Life 2: Bless & Endurance
Life 3: Holy Avenger
Life 4: RIghteousness
Life 5: Invulnerability & Planar Travel
Life 6: Lion Heart & True Sight

Death 2: Cloak of Fear
Death 3: Death
Death 4: Wraithform & Power Drain
Death 5: Vampiric (Life Drain)

Chaos 2: Flaming
Chaos 5: Lightning & Destruction
Chaos 6: Chaos

Nature 2: Water Walking, Resist Elements & Petrify
Nature 3: Pathfinding & Giant Strength
Nature 4: Elemental Armor
Nature 6: Regeneration

Sorcery 2: Resist Magic
Sorcery 3: Flight & Guardian Wind
Sorcery 5: Invisibility & Magic Immunity
Sorcery 6: Phantasmal
Sorcery 7: Haste
Posted May 25, 2013
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TwoHandedSword: Point of order: you don't max out potential item enchantments at 5 books.
I think we were all aware of this it's just that because we are Focusing on the Artificer & Runemaster Combo it only leaves us with a possible max of 5 in one school because we will have chosen 2 books in each of 3 schools. Thus really focusing on anything higher than 5 is not realistic at the outset.

I think I may have gone off track mentioning the Regeneration granted if you can get 6 Nature books just because it can be a damn useful ability for a hero to have to make up for instant kills or even unlucky rolls in battle. So sorry for that.

I also just wanted to point out possible combinations since you could say take instead of just 2 in 3 schools 3 in 3 say Death, Nature and Sorc that way you get Flight, Pathfinding and that Death gazelike ability. Or just Flight and also be able to get Warlord which would be super since WL effects your Heroes as well as normal troops.
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TwoHandedSword: Nature 2: Petrify
This is actually "Stoning" that I listed above. It causes them to petrify so it's an easy mistake to make.

Sadly as listed Stoning gives a "Touch" attack and not the more Powerful "Gaze" version that Basilisks, Goragons and Chaos spawns have. The difference is that Gaze goes before Melee attacks, which means it can kill before receiving damage, while Touch happens at same time letting all the enemy units have a chance of hitting you.

The Gaze ability actually does not exist as a Artifact Enchant ability boohoo.
Post edited May 25, 2013 by EvilLoynis
Posted May 25, 2013
Wow awesome posts everybody! Guess I missed a lot!

I was wondering if regeneration would show up, it's so ridiculously good. Who needs magic immunity when your hero just comes back after dying in combat?!

I have had really mixed results with this build, though I haven't been playing it to its full potential. I have had several games where a hero doesn't show up and a couple of random halberdiers kill me off. I could easily prevent that if I was playing more conservatively, but the randomness is somewhat annoying. However, I had one game where B'Shan and Shuri showed up and they basically captured all of Arcanus by themselves, solo. 20 ranged attack x8... they were able to solo great wyrms.

So... very mixed results.

I start with +3 atk, +3 def, flight, magic immunity amulet. Then go into 4 def, 2 move, 4 res, guardian wind plate. I should prob change that to flight / invis on amulet and magic immunity on plate. Once the "armor" pieces are crafted, I horde some mana and wait until a hero shows up to craft a weapon. Ranged heroes seem far, far more efficient with this strategy, esp magic heroes, since they get more than 8 attacks and can have phantom warriors x4 on the weapon. For some weird reason, +3 def costs only 50 mana on a staff. How do you get defense from a staff, anyway? +4 flaming staff of Jet Li?
Post edited May 25, 2013 by SamKuker101
Posted May 25, 2013
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SamKuker101: For some weird reason, +3 def costs only 50 mana on a staff. How do you get defense from a staff, anyway? +4 flaming staff of Jet Li?
I think it's because Staffs or Staves are 2 handed sticks and can be used to both attack and defense unlike say an axe. Also I think because most Heroes who use the Staves are not allowed Armor that they really had to give them Def somehow other than on Misc items.
Posted May 26, 2013
Sadly invisibility on items doesn't work properly, your heroes are still targetable for spells... very annoying for web and dispel magic.

Starting to not like this build; if you don't get a hero in the first 50 turns, the game is essentially over.
Posted May 26, 2013
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SamKuker101: Starting to not like this build; if you don't get a hero in the first 50 turns, the game is essentially over.
This is why my new build looks like,

WarLord
Artificer + Runemancer
2 Life Books - For Heroism which is especially good if you get a * "Sage" Hero* early.
2 Chaos Books - For Flaming and Flame Blade.
3 Nature Books - For Pathfinding/Waterwalking

Along with the Barbarian Race because of their "Thrown" ability and also adding any random towns, makes things quite good early on while your crafting and waiting for Heroes. Barbarian Horsemen are insane, they get "Thrown" and "First Strike" and so can deal all their attack damage before the enemy can retaliate

* The Sage ability on Heroes starts at +3 Research. By putting Heroism on that Sage right away it boosts this to +12, and with my WarLord build it's +15 right at the start. This more than compensates for the lousy 2 mana upkeep for it. Added to this is the fact that basically any Hero who can get Sage ability are casters as well, with a few exceptions, Heroism on them also improves that stat and in turn lets you crank out artifacts to increase your mana quicker as well and it's a very good thing.

http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Sage

Anyway I feel this build/race allows you to deal with physical encounters quite early while not slowing down your mana generation through artifact making. Still have to test it out a bit more ofc.
Post edited May 26, 2013 by EvilLoynis
Posted June 01, 2013
Biggest change I have made with this build recently is picking healing instead of heroism. Healing is essentially mandatory for the whole game, whereas heroism only effects the first few battles with the hero.

This build secured me my first victory on 4 players - extreme - huge after I started playing in the insecticide patch. Had a 21 atk / 25 def / 29 hits Brax, freaking boss. Also had a Baghtru and a Roland... the three of them just swept across the lands. Brax solo'd a Great Drake in Sss'ra's fortress city!

Also, with 3 schools of magic, constantly banishing wizards, I had Flamestrike, Mass Healing, Mass Invisibility and Time Stop before the game was over.
Posted June 04, 2013
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SamKuker101: Biggest change I have made with this build recently is picking healing instead of heroism. Healing is essentially mandatory for the whole game, whereas heroism only effects the first few battles with the hero.
I agree that Healing is of more long term use most of the time. However in the beginning Heroism is very useful especially on Spell Casting Heroes and/or Sages like I outlined above. It is also good on normal Heroes as well if you are going to fighting with them at all.

I really love to start on Myrror so I have had to redo my build to the following;

Myrran
Artificer + Runemancer
2 Life Books - For Heroism which is especially good if you get a * "Sage" Hero* early.
2 Chaos Books - For Flaming and Flame Blade.
2 Nature Books - For Waterwalking

While I lose Warlord I gain the ability to get Adamantium troops quite early and really it makes up for not getting WL early on. Plus you can find the Warlord Retort hopefully from various encounters unlike Myrran. Also even though you can find the Artificer + Runemancer the same way for the first you don't get the spells automatically and you won't be able to benefit from the artifact bonus's early enough to make much difference if you don't start with them.
Posted June 04, 2013
Beat Impossible - Huge - 4 Wizards - 2.5x Magic yesterday. Freaking Valana lead the charge with Morgana and Elana in tow. For non-thrown heroes, I'm leaning toward mass defense items, +3 def swords, +8 def plate, +4 def amulets.

Do you still build armies when doing this strategy, Evilloynis? I find them to be mostly a waste of time. I don't get nature books, so no pathfinding, and the armies can't keep up with the heroes. Unfortunately this means I generally raze 80% of the enemy cities I capture, unless the city is in the middle of nowhere and won't be attacked by enemy troops in the near future.

Also, what myrran race do you prefer in general? And for this build?

I'm still in love with 5 Sorcery - 2 Chaos - 2 Life - Artificer - Runemaster so I can have magic immunity, flight and invisibility on the items.
Post edited June 04, 2013 by SamKuker101
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Master of MagicArtificer & Runemaster Build; help me tweak this(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)