I just fail to understand why no indies are allowed to be well-to-do without leaving the indie-sphere.

It has to do with the orgin of the term Indie grew out from the term "Indie Rock" a style of music which can trace it roots back to 60s garage, 70s punk, and 80s post punk. The genre itself started in the mid 80s as alternative/college radio music. Once nirvana hit big the alternative genre split: the popular side was just called "alternative"(formerly "Grunge" or "Seattle Sound") and consided of bands signed to major labels such as Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Hole, No Doubt, etc. and the other half that wasn't mainstream(by choice or not) became known as "indie rock" with bands like Pavement, Sebadoh, Built To Spill, etc and so the term "Indie" had simply became a label/way to say "small" or "non mainstream" and help separate bands from their similar mainstream counter parts.

This was latter adapted to other forms of mediums such as Films and now Video games.

And the garage rock genre still exists. Can't we have "garage games," rather than telling independent developers that they aren't allowed to be independent because they make more than $12,000 or so per game?

EDIT: Oh! Oh! Last I checked, Jack White (and his bands) was still indie rock. He runs his own label. You're telling me that isn't well-to-do?

Look I'm just saying WHY people use that label they way they do, besides Indie and Independent are two different things. Valve is Independent meaning they are privately owned and operated and so they don't have to anwser to publishers,shareholders and the like but their not "Indie" meaning they can have actual budgets and a decent amount of staff and all that.

It's similar to how Atari up till Nolan Bushnell sold the company to Warner Bros. was a independent company.

Oh, I wasn't defending Valve. They run the biggest digital distributor. By nature, that distributor is independent. The chain (in terms of who's dependent upon who) is distributor -> publisher -> developer with the distributor at the top of the tree. They're in some uncharted territory that I can't really give a term.

I was defending the rest of them.

EDIT2: And yeah, sorry, I'm aware that you're just stating why.

EDIT: Anyways, they're semantics and I was just sort of stating that I don't understand the logic behind them.

I'm going to stop derailing this thread now.

Well the logic is that people need to label things and indie has become a label for small ,lowbudget, non mainstream things nothing more to it then that. It's stupid sure but that's how it is sadly people need to have everything defined and categorized

Top ten Indie(but not freeware) games?

Dungeons of Dredmor
Lone survivor
Atom Zombie smasher
Pathologic(?)
Lugaru
Thirty Flights of Loving
Eschalon: Book(s)
Hotline Miami
Terraria
Din's Curse

Top ten of freeware games ( - roguelikes)

Battle for Wesnoth
Iji
Don't look back
Spelunky
Rework the Dead:Evil
Brány Skeldalu
Mravenci(ants)
The Spirit Engine
The Spirit Engine 2
Barkley, shut up and jam: gaiden

No particular order :

Blackwell
Penumbra
World of Goo
Braid
Osmos
FTL
Eschalon
Geneforge
Project Zomboid
the Trilby thingies (adventure games, and Art of Theft)

(and I'm also quite fond of GunFu Deadlands)

Edit for linky : http://sourceforge.net/projects/gunfudeadlands/
(spent too much time on that one)

Off the top of my head. I'm probably forgetting a favorite or two.
Counting down to my favorite...

Uplink
Peasant's Quest
Osmos
AaaaaAAaaaAAAaaAAAAaAAAAA!!! -- A Reckless Disregard for Gravity (the first indie game that I bought)
Nimbus
Orcs Must Die! (is this Indie?)
Atom Zombie Smasher
VVVVVV
Resonance
Anomaly Warzone Earth (all time favorite!)

Indie rock simply refers of style of alternative rock that was originally found on the independent labels. Saying that Modest Mouse is not indie rock because they are on a major label is like saying Nirvana is not alternative rock just because they are mainstream.

Alternative/indie rock actually started way before the mid-80s. The Go-Betweens for example released their first single "Lee Remick" in 1978, which is also the likely the first alternative/indie release. Today, it is classified specifically as indie rock.

Other early indie/alternative rock songs include:
Orange Juice - "Falling and Laughing" (1980)
REM - "Radio Free Europe" (1981)
The Church - "The Unguarded Moment" (1981)

I don't it is accurate to say that alternative and indie rock "split". After all, indie rock is a subgenre of alternative rock, meaning that all indie rock is alternative rock. But I guess you are right the distinction between indie rock and other alternative rock probably began in the late 80s or early 90s.

1. Home
2. Terraria
3. Beat Hazard
4. Shank series
5. Minecraft
6. The Binding of Isaac
7. Capsized
8. Amnesia
9. Frozen Synapse
10. Ravaged

1. Noctis IV - Absolutely the most artistic, most ethereal game I have ever played, and probably ever will play. Far more than just a game... it is a thing of beauty.

2. Machinarium - Adventure game perfection in nearly every sense with presentation to die for and a plot that's engaging but simple. Nobody does charm like Amanita Design, and Machinarium may very well be their masterpiece.

3. Miasmata - I haven't finished it yet, but so far Miasmata is the sort of experience that only comes along every once in awhile. So unique and different, yet so confident in both its uniqueness and its differentness (not a word, I know).

4. FTL - Building a surprisingly rich emergent adventure experience on a brilliantly deep-but-simple combat system, FTL absolutely nails the ship captain fantasy like nothing else I've played. And the funky music certainly doesn't hurt matters.

5. Voxatron - Not the most jaw-dropping indie game ever made, but shooting up voxel levels is loads of fun, and the charming visual style, endless supply of levels, and tangible enthusiasm makes Voxatron hard to resist.

6. Penumbra: Overture - Amnesia may be more frightening, but Penumbra: Overture is a far more magnetic game. There's fear aplenty, to be sure, but it feels less oppressive and repulsive. More fun.

7. Uplink - I think every gamer has at least some sort of fantasy about being an elite computer hacker. Uplink isn't perfect, but it does have a lot of personality, and does let you play hacker in fairly convincing and clever ways.

8. The Binding of Isaac - Although not really a fan of Mcmillen's aesthetic or sense of humor, I enjoy Binding of Isaac for its ludicrous number of items/powerups and its tight design. It's not as good as fellow Roguelikelike FTL, but it's still pretty fun in its own right.

9. Amnesia: The Dark Descent - Amnesia is on here more out of respect than out of personal affection. My feelings toward the game are nothing but cold, detached admiration. It's not something I can muster any love for, not just because it's so nightmarishly frightening but also because it represents the beginning of a certain school of thought that I'm beginning to strongly disagree with. Still, for what it tries to do it's nearly perfect. And that deserves credit.

10. Terarria - Terarria is basically just about grinding... but it's heavily disguised grinding, and manages to be quite a lot of fun for awhile. And with more of an emphasis on combat and progression, it ends up being a more fulfilling experience than Minecraft's virtual creating. In my opinion, of course.

Legend of Grimrock

not in order but my top 10 games

Legend of grimrock
Hotline miami
The binding of isaac
FTL
Gemini rue
To the moon
Braid
Amnesia
Penumbra series
LIMBO